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Old 06-29-2006, 12:47 AM
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Default Department of Defense listens to Rota

Now they wouldn't do this unless there was a problem.........now would they? Listen to rota and we'll shut these "loose lips that sink ships" up.

Quote:
Israeli ties impair US security clearance
US discriminating against US citizens with Israeli ties
Nathan Guttman - The Jerusalem Post - May 18, 2006
US citizens who have ties to Israel or an Israeli-American dual citizenship encounter difficulties in obtaining security clearance from the Pentagon and are dealt with in a manner similar to that of Americans who have ties with hostile nations.

A new study published last month examines the decisions concerning clearance requests by Americans with ties to Israel and finds that in many cases the applicants are questioned on the issue of dual loyalty. The government, in at least three cases, cited the Larry Franklin case, in which a Pentagon analyst allegedly gave classified information to two former staffers of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) as a case that supports the claim that individuals with ties to Israel cannot be trusted with security clearance.

The study was first reported in the New York Sun this week.

Sheldon I. Cohen, a Virginia-based lawyer who conducted the study said that he found that ties with Israel are treated more severely then those with other countries which are known to be allies of America.

"My impression," he told The Jerusalem Post, "is that the government views Israel in a tougher way than other non-hostile countries, such as Sweden, Britain or France, and in a way which is similar to that of hostile countries like China."

Attorney David Schoen of Atlanta, who is now representing a Lockheed-Martin employee who lost his clearance due to ties with Israel, said he believes that Americans with Israeli citizenship are singled out by the Pentagon on issues of security clearance.

Schoen's client, a 53-year-old engineer who holds both US and Israeli citizenship and whose mother and sister live in Israel, was informed that his clearance was revoked due to "foreign preferences," since he holds an Israeli passport, and "foreign vulnerability," because he has relatives in Israel. When Schoen asked the government representative to see a list of countries in which having family members would create a "foreign vulnerability," he was told there is no such list.

The judge in the case refused to enter as evidence the Franklin-AIPAC indictment and a decision is expected next month. Meanwhile, the employee was fired by Lockheed-Martin.

According to the study, since 1996, the year in which the Defense Office of Hearings and Appeals (DOHA), which adjudicates security clearance issues, began making its decisions public, there were 47 cases involving Israel and 29 of them were denied clearance.

In the cases brought to the appeals board, the government argued that ties of the applicant with Israel, either by dual citizenship, holding an Israeli passport or having close family members in Israel, should serve as a disqualifying factor due to "foreign preference" or "foreign influence."

The government attorneys raised, when the cases came to discussion, several references that would portray Israel as a country trying to obtain American secrets, among them the Jonathan Pollard case, a five-year-old report that puts Israel in a list of countries that conduct industrial espionage in the US and lately also the AIPAC-Franklin case.

The protocols of DOHA reveal that Americans with dual Israeli citizenship are frequently asked questions regarding their loyalties to the US and Israel. "The appeal board used the hypothetical situation of an applicant being asked to disclose classified information, not for the purpose of harming the United States, but to either increase the security of Israel so his family in Israel could live in peace and safety, or to reduce threats to the lives of Israeli military personnel, which might include the applicant's sister and brother," the report reads.

In one case, an applicant who was born in Israel and later became a US citizen was asked hypothetically if he would take up arms against Israel if the US would require him to do so. He said he could not conceive of such a situation and could not see himself taking up arms against Israel. The appeals board denied his request for clearance based on "foreign preference."

Cohen said that from his experience, Israel is the only country that these hypothetical questions are asked about. "It's a dirty question. It's a catch-22 situation - whatever you answer will be the wrong answer," he said.

Pentagon sources who are aware of the issue confirmed that ties with Israel are seen as a problem when requesting security clearance and that even elderly family members living in Israel are seen at times as a reason to revoke or deny clearance.

In a recent community meeting at a Washington synagogue, Baruch Weiss, an attorney representing Keith Weissman, one of the AIPAC defendants, noted that the case is now being used to deny clearances from people who have ties with Israel and said this is one of the aspects of the case that should alarm the Jewish community.

http://www.jonathanpollard.org/2006/051806a.htm
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Old 06-29-2006, 04:16 AM
skeptic-f skeptic-f is offline
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Default This should have been done decades ago

Does nobody remember that Israel stole American fissionable material to make its first nuclear bombs (Stoney Ridge, I believe)? Given that sort of record, it is obvious that however valuable an ally they are, their partisans should not be in positions which could seriously impact national security.

As an example, what if national security mandated a sweeping deal with the arab world involving a promise to pressure the Israelis to abandon settlements on the West Bank in exchange for the arrest of a terrorist network based in several arab states. What if the information was leaked ahead of time to Israel, who released it to embarass the U.S. and thereby warned the terrorists they were about to be arrested?

That's just a scenario, of course, but it does point up the fact that in the end the U.S. and Israel have very different objectives which could easily come into conflict in the wrong set of circumstances. It would be like trusting the South Koreans or, god forbid, the French.
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Old 06-29-2006, 05:43 AM
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Originally Posted by skeptic-f";p=&quot View Post
Does nobody remember that Israel stole American fissionable material to make its first nuclear bombs (Stoney Ridge, I believe)?
No, I don't remember, and I found nothing about "Stoney Ridge" on wikipedia or on a google search (at least nothing about Israel). Do you have any links about it?
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Old 06-29-2006, 07:48 AM
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Default There is precendent for being wary of Israel

Remember Jonathan Pollard?
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Old 06-29-2006, 10:49 AM
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Default CORRECTION

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Originally Posted by bktx1";p=&quot View Post
Remember Jonathan Pollard?
Your headline stated there is reason to be wary of Israel.

It should have read, wary of any country attempting to learn our secrets.

That's what spooks do, see. Ours do it to them all the time. The CI people like Angleton understood such things.
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Old 06-29-2006, 11:24 AM
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Default when

Quote:
Originally Posted by quiller";p=&quot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by bktx1";p=&quot View Post
Remember Jonathan Pollard?
Your headline stated there is reason to be wary of Israel.

It should have read, wary of any country attempting to learn our secrets.

That's what spooks do, see. Ours do it to them all the time. The CI people like Angleton understood such things.
When is the last time an Arab country got caught for stealing secret U.S. information? I thought they were the sneaky terrorists that were out to get us.
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Old 06-29-2006, 04:17 PM
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Default Speak Directly Into the Martini Olive, Please

Department of Defense listens to Rota

Rota, the DOD listens in on everyone. It's for our own protection.

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Old 06-29-2006, 06:31 PM
bktx1 bktx1 is offline
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Default So I guess you are okay with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by quiller";p=&quot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by bktx1";p=&quot View Post
Remember Jonathan Pollard?
Your headline stated there is reason to be wary of Israel.

It should have read, wary of any country attempting to learn our secrets.

That's what spooks do, see. Ours do it to them all the time. The CI people like Angleton understood such things.
He was a spy for Israel, passing military secrets over to Israel, our supposed ally and largest recipient of U.S. aid. Do you trust a friend who steals from you?

Don't forget the U.S.S. Liberty, either.
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Old 06-29-2006, 07:29 PM
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Default It's secret.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joker";p=&quot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeptic-f";p=&quot View Post
Does nobody remember that Israel stole American fissionable material to make its first nuclear bombs (Stoney Ridge, I believe)?
No, I don't remember, and I found nothing about "Stoney Ridge" on wikipedia or on a google search (at least nothing about Israel). Do you have any links about it?

Bush probably reclassified it.
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Old 06-29-2006, 07:41 PM
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Default LOL

Quote:
Originally Posted by sputterman";p=&quot View Post

Bush probably reclassified it.
Bwahahahaha
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