Thread: Do you approve sex before marriage?

Originally Posted by Ostap Bender

According to the leftist-liberal "moral" sex before marriage is fine,liberal "teachers" indoctrinate students to have sex ( at best homosexual ) before marriage, the more the better. The liberal mainstream medias promote sex before and outside of wedding non-stop 24/7. But what the Holy Bible says about, is there not a conflict between the liberal "moral" and Commandments of God.Also, do you agree with the Holy Bible or share the liberal point of view, please vote and explain.

Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

1 Corinthians 6:18 KJV

Let marriage be held in honor by all, and the bed undefiled: but fornicators and adulterers God will judge.

Hebrews 13:4

10 Reasons Not to Have Sex Outside of Marriage
&
http://christianity.about.com/od/wha...ndthebible.htm

Question: "What does the Bible say about sex before marriage?"

http://www.gotquestions.org/sex-before-marriage.html

Ostap , my long time PF friend & fellow brother in Christ. . . Great thread & Op . . my good friend .

. as a Father that has helped my Wife raise daughters , now grown and with college educations & good careers and a good Life ahead , mainly because of their Christian up-bringing , we say grace and we pray and we work hard and hope for the best , knowing that our prayers are heard , but not knowing what lies ahead in their young lives , but hoping for them to be mature enough to make adult decisions on their own , for themselves . . .

Ostap , we may be old-farts now , but at one time we was young roosters ourselves , and us being men of the Spirit as well as in the World , we know what draws boys & girls , men & women together , , you are married , did you marry for spiritual reasons or physical reasons ? when you first met , felt that first surge of testerone , experienced the first erection , did you stop and start reading scripture or did ya want to jump for the sheer joy of youth and the thrill of the fair lady close in your young dreams . .

Ostap , our kids will all experience the same things as they grow up , we did , they are , we all do .
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As a Father , I discourage sex outside of marriage to my daughters , it's my Daddy thing , they respect me for setting the moral bar a bit high , but they all have their boyfriends , and they are hours away , so the choices they make are up to them , they know it , but perhaps the most moral thing a parent can do is to be honest about sex and intelligently discuss realistic options to avoid un-wanted pregnancies .

which , btw , I mainly left that to my wife to discuss with them , being a female herself , she sort of spoke their lingo .

Originally Posted by reallybigjohnson

If you can't have sex before or outside of marriage then when are you supposed to have sex? Lord knows you don't get much, if any, after you get married.

Lol , BigJ , an older co-worker told me onct when I was a newlywed to put a quarter in a jug every time I had sex for a year , and then from then on out , take a quarter out every time we pounded the posterpedic , and he said you'd never get to that last quarter . . . he'd been married for over 35 years . . that was in 1990...

well , it's 2012 , I been married 31 years , and ya know what ? He was right , so far anyway ... LOL

Originally Posted by Dagger

I try as best I can. Usually when I do something the bible doesnt permit its because I was ignorant to the fact that the bible didnt permit it. I read some of the bible everyday in an attempt to better myself as a Christian.

Ok... so where does the Bible say expressly that you cannot have sex outside of marriage?

Originally Posted by MegadethFan

Ok... so where does the Bible say expressly that you cannot have sex outside of marriage?

As I hinted personally I do not interpret the scripture to take a hard line against sex before marriage. It depends on how one interprets scripture. The old and new testament mention sex before marriage, as well as marriage etc. The new testament passages are clearer than the old testament, but both were written about and in a near primitive time where marriage does not mean exactly the same thing as a USA legal church wedding, ha ha much different. Additionally the old testament was written (primarily) in Hebrew and the new in Greek, so we could make either or cases based on the words marriage sex etc and what they mean in the original language. My studies were in the area of ancient languages so trust me when I say the English translation of the original texts is sufficient and similar enough for everyone to agree on the core issues such as salvation etc. That said I believe a scriptural case could be made for either view point.

I do think sex before marriage is asking for trouble not with God issues concerning legal and personal issues. That is my personal opinion arrived at by simple common sense (and a good dose of life experience). Anyway, (below) is a scripture that relates to the question. I haven't created a sermon in a decade, much less one that deals with this subject. I am simply not interested in such items, and am more interested in other bible such as how prophesy etc relates to our modern age. Anyway, please remember; words from Greek ie new testament scripture sometimes don’t translate to English well. Take ‘repent’ for example. All Christians know what repent means. However I doubt that many know what it means when translated directly with no editing from Armenic or Greek to English. The translation is at least a paragraph (I would separate it into two paragraphs). So take that into account in reading the scripture below, especially the words and terms such as ‘sexual immorality’, ‘prostitute’, etc.

1 Corinthians 6
12"Everything is permissible for me"-but not everything is beneficial.
"Everything is permissible for me"-but I will not be mastered by
anything. 13"Food for the stomach and the stomach for food"-but God
will destroy them both. The body is not meant for sexual immorality,
but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 14By his power God raised
the Lord from the dead, and he will raise us also. 15Do you not know
that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the
members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! 16Do you
not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her
in body? For it is said, "The two will become one flesh."[b] 17But he
who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit.
18 Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are
outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body.
19Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who
is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;
20you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.”

reva

ps I can already hear atheists rubbing their hands together getting ready to claim if the bible and its wording can be interpreted so fluidly with words that mean different things etc, doesn't that detract from the credibility of the book? No. Because the core issues ie those that effect what one must do to serve God and save their and others souls are the same. Only the minor details are different etc. A good analogy is a tree. The core message of salvation is the trunk and roots. The minor parables stories words differing in translations are like the trees and small branches of the tree. Well its not the best of analogies but you get the point?

reva

Originally Posted by RevAnarchist

As I hinted personally I do not interpret the scripture to take a hard line against sex before marriage. It depends on how one interprets scripture. The old and new testament mention sex before marriage, as well as marriage etc. The new testament passages are clearer than the old testament, but both were written about and in a near primitive time where marriage does not mean exactly the same thing as a USA legal church wedding, ha ha much different. Additionally the old testament was written (primarily) in Hebrew and the new in Greek, so we could make either or cases based on the words marriage sex etc and what they mean in the original language. My studies were in the area of ancient languages so trust me when I say the English translation of the original texts is sufficient and similar enough for everyone to agree on the core issues such as salvation etc. That said I believe a scriptural case could be made for either view point.

I do think sex before marriage is asking for trouble not with God issues concerning legal and personal issues. That is my personal opinion arrived at by simple common sense (and a good dose of life experience). Anyway, (below) is a scripture that relates to the question. I haven't created a sermon in a decade, much less one that deals with this subject. I am simply not interested in such items, and am more interested in other bible such as how prophesy etc relates to our modern age. Anyway, please remember; words from Greek ie new testament scripture sometimes don’t translate to English well. Take ‘repent’ for example. All Christians know what repent means. However I doubt that many know what it means when translated directly with no editing from Armenic or Greek to English. The translation is at least a paragraph (I would separate it into two paragraphs). So take that into account in reading the scripture below, especially the words and terms such as ‘sexual immorality’, ‘prostitute’, etc.

1 Corinthians 6
12"Everything is permissible for me"-but not everything is beneficial.
"Everything is permissible for me"-but I will not be mastered by
anything. 13"Food for the stomach and the stomach for food"-but God
will destroy them both. The body is not meant for sexual immorality,
but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 14By his power God raised
the Lord from the dead, and he will raise us also. 15Do you not know
that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the
members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! 16Do you
not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her
in body? For it is said, "The two will become one flesh."[b] 17But he
who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit.
18 Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are
outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body.
19Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who
is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;
20you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.”

reva

ps I can already hear atheists rubbing their hands together getting ready to claim if the bible and its wording can be interpreted so fluidly with words that mean different things etc, doesn't that detract from the credibility of the book? No. Because the core issues ie those that effect what one must do to serve God and save their and others souls are the same. Only the minor details are different etc. A good analogy is a tree. The core message of salvation is the trunk and roots. The minor parables stories words differing in translations are like the trees and small branches of the tree. Well its not the best of analogies but you get the point?
reva

So, does the Bible expressly denounce sex outside of marriage or just vaguely criticize it?

Originally Posted by MegadethFan

Dont conflate rape with consensual sex and marriage with slavery. He doesnt "own" anyone. He doesnt protect his wife or whatever because they are property - he protects them because he seek to respect their interest and thus I suspect he would protect anyone in a similar instance where possible.

All this is liberal lies and tripe. He protects them, because he feels he owns her. This is what all men, and even women, do.

It's about ownership and slavery. It's common for people to feel they own each other. You can start with parents and children. Children are material, objective property of their parents. They're not "people". They're objects, like a pet or animal. They're not fully human. Children do not become fully human, until a boy becomes a man, and a girl becomes a woman. Only after the transition is made from childhood to adulthood, can anybody CLAIM OWNERSHIP OF THEMSELVES.

Originally Posted by MegadethFan

Parents do not own their children - they have CUSTODY. Custody can be taken away

More liberal BULL####

By "custody" you mean "ownership". You're just switching the words around like a typical liberal ploy. You're a trickster and a deceiver. You're trying to make a "feel good" word, custody, instead of what it is, ownership and slavery. All children are slaves to their parents, as a slave is to his master. God is master of ALL.

Originally Posted by MegadethFan

Total bull(*)(*)(*)(*).


God wont pick up the phone. I think he died a few thousand years ago, anyway.

Just because you hate God, and want Him dead, doesn't mean He doesn't exist, or that your hatred has any affect against Him. You're just angry that you're wrong, about everything in life.

Originally Posted by Objectivism

i would have hoped to find an argument with a fact somewhere in there, but from a religious person, i should have known how difficult that would be.

thanks for trying

"You're all about sexsexsex, sinsinsin"

actually, i'm all about truth truth truth, logic logic logic. find some, present it, then we'll talk.

So you can't admit that animals don't marry each other????????

Theists 1, Atheists 0

Originally Posted by Heretic

All this is liberal lies and tripe. He protects them, because he feels he owns her. This is what all men, and even women, do.

No, by your logic you want men to be tyrants over their wives and kids. I really hope you dont have a family, for their sake.

Originally Posted by Heretic

It's about ownership and slavery. It's common for people to feel they own each other. You can start with parents and children. Children are material, objective property of their parents. They're not "people". They're objects, like a pet or animal. They're not fully human. Children do not become fully human, until a boy becomes a man, and a girl becomes a woman. Only after the transition is made from childhood to adulthood, can anybody CLAIM OWNERSHIP OF THEMSELVES.

No, people own themselves as soon as they begin to have awareness of their existence. This expands as their awareness expands. Upon reaching the age of consent they have full reign over their bodies, which means once reaching 18, men have no power over women they do not acquire by consent.

Originally Posted by Heretic

More liberal BULL####

Have a cry.

Originally Posted by Heretic

By "custody" you mean "ownership".

No, I mean custody.

Originally Posted by Heretic

You're just switching the words around like a typical liberal ploy. You're a trickster and a deceiver. You're trying to make a "feel good" word, custody, instead of what it is, ownership and slavery. All children are slaves to their parents, as a slave is to his master. God is master of ALL.

God is a (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)bag and probably doesnt exist. Custody is not ownership. No one owns anybody, except a mother over her child where it has no self-awareness or interest in being alive. So a women, for example, has a right to an abortion, but not to kill her young children.

Originally Posted by Heretic

Just because you hate God, and want Him dead, doesn't mean He doesn't exist, or that your hatred has any affect against Him. You're just angry that you're wrong, about everything in life.

LOL Wrong. God clearly doesnt care what goes on here. He might exist, but his existence doesnt change the fact he is useless to us on this earth. So far I proven you wrong on every point, so the failure is all yours.

Originally Posted by reallybigjohnson

If you can't have sex before or outside of marriage then when are you supposed to have sex? Lord knows you don't get much, if any, after you get married.

Sex is not about frequency, or even pleasure. It's about procreating life. Sex is about DUTY and OBLIGATION. Those closest to GOD have a DUTY to reproduce, and they do. People closer to God, have successful marriages, personal relationships, and are envied by all. Those who FAIL to walk in the IMAGE OF GOD and the PATH OF CHRIST, are people who don't have the spiritual power to form or maintain successful relationships, especially not a marital union.

Did you know that in the Medieval era, only kings, queens, and royalty was "allowed" the PRIVILEGE of marriage? Marriage used to be a privilege, excluded to servants and slaves, like you liberals. It used to be something envied and emulated by the poor. But, when the spiritually crippled try marriage out, they expose what they truly are. They don't have what it takes. They get divorces. They lie, cheat, and hate each other for it, too. They SIN!!!!!!! And that SIN is the rot and cancer of great societies, like our ONCE GREAT SOCIETY.

What do you think the ballooning divorce rate in the United States represents? It is a spiritual suicide, a catastrophe soon to be met with a greater disaster.

Originally Posted by Objectivism

oh and btw, things like love and morals are concepts that are built into our brains, not derived from religious teachings.

WRONG

Animals do not display morality. Have you ever seen animals perform a marriage ceremony in a TRUE CHRISTIAN CHURCH UNDER THE EYE AND GRACE OF GOD??????

Nope, didn't think so

Theists 1, Atheists 0

Originally Posted by Objectivism

life is a tedious and arduous process, so without these subjectively-driven tools, mankind would fail, which is why most people without the ability to love or have morals, don't succeed in reproducing. religion is more like a safety net, so even if you are genetically flawed or you were raised incorrectly, you can still be taught how to reproduce. that's all it is.

You're wrong. All children must be taught how to ___LOVE___

That's what religion is for. Have you ever even read anything about CHRIST? Did God's Son not preach LOVE as HIS message?

Originally Posted by Objectivism

church is for people who lack an internal motive to live life in a meaningful way and connect to other people with their real selves.

What would a liberal atheist LIKE YOU know about "real selves"?

You are types who deny the existence of souls and spirituality.

Originally Posted by Objectivism

so they opt to be force-fed meaning from one of a thousand variations of ancient cultural guidance programs with a deity or idol, that for some unknown reason, feels the need to be worshiped by something it created itself. they use the teachings as training to create a mask to put over their true selves and their true personality so that they can connect to a peer in their religious community with their well-developed cookie-cutter soul.

You're just angry because your SOUL yearns for more meaning, and purpose, which comes from a higher power than you.

Originally Posted by Objectivism

why do they do it? because it works. religion, like man, has evolved during man's existence. any time something was out of place or deterred believers it was noticed by the next person to create a religion, and corrected. in the case of islam, christianity, and judaism, the adjustments were closer related to the culture for which they were designed than for human nature itself.

Irrelevant babble

Originally Posted by Heretic

Sex is not about frequency, or even pleasure. It's about procreating life. Sex is about DUTY and OBLIGATION. Those closest to GOD have a DUTY to reproduce, and they do. People closer to God, have successful marriages, personal relationships, and are envied by all. Those who FAIL to walk in the IMAGE OF GOD and the PATH OF CHRIST, are people who don't have the spiritual power to form or maintain successful relationships, especially not a marital union.

Wrong on all counts. Sex is about pleasure, bonding and reproduction - they are all common reasons, but the first is the most consistent cause. As for 'religious people have better marriages' you will note that in America atheists have a LOWER rate of divorce than Christians, so this is just false.

Originally Posted by Heretic

Did you know that in the Medieval era, only kings, queens, and royalty was "allowed" the PRIVILEGE of marriage? Marriage used to be a privilege, excluded to servants and slaves, like you liberals. It used to be something envied and emulated by the poor. But, when the spiritually crippled try marriage out, they expose what they truly are. They don't have what it takes. They get divorces. They lie, cheat, and hate each other for it, too. They SIN!!!!!!! And that SIN is the rot and cancer of great societies, like our ONCE GREAT SOCIETY.

I think you should go back to the Middle Ages because your philosophy will be nonexistent in a few generations.

Originally Posted by Heretic

What do you think the ballooning divorce rate in the United States represents?

More freedom really.

Originally Posted by Heretic

It is a spiritual suicide, a catastrophe soon to be met with a greater disaster.

LOL You keep thinking that. Spiritual suicide is, for the most part, a good thing in my book.