Thread: Which is more important to you:

Staying alive is most important to me. Civil liberties are the liberties of the rich, not our people, to do as they please, and economic liberty is the right of the very rich to rob us ragged. The government is the Central Committeee of the boss class, and they own the media too. You are asking, essentially, how we think our masters might like to exploit us. Silly question.

Originally Posted by MilitantConservative

Civil liberties, or economic liberties?

I was going to say civil, think I think it naturally leads to economic liberties, but I voted equal.

Originally Posted by MilitantConservative

I say that economic liberty is absolutely fundamental to all liberty, because if you own your own property, people aren't allowed to go into your property and interfere with your life in any way.

That's not true. Civil liberty makes your person property. Property laws dont do this, they just place external value on items one has acquired.

Originally Posted by MilitantConservative

Thus, two gay people can do anything they want ON THEIR OWN PROPERTY, when you have economic liberty.

That's true, but they cant get married or express themselves openly without civil liberties. See the problem. If you have civil liberties however, you tend naturally to get a recognition of private property as an extension of individual freedom in the public sphere. So a historical example: when the Chicago boys started experimenting economically in Chile (ie create economic freedoms) this did not in really any way extend to civil liberties, which were entirely quashed by the fascist Pinochet regime.

Originally Posted by MilitantConservative

They don't need laws that explicitly "protect" their civil liberties.

Yes, they do. That's just retarded that you would frankly say otherwise.

Originally Posted by MilitantConservative

And frankly, us righties are the actual civil rights activists, because we don't agree with stealing from Peter to pay for Paul's (*)(*)(*)(*).

Actually, from what I've seen a lot around here, you'll have to clarify who the "nighties" are because there are a lot of self proclaimed conservatives who are totally against basic civil liberties, let alone extensive ones.

Originally Posted by CoolWalker

As money buys everything, economic freedom would top the list. Then at least you could buy other freedoms if need be.

That's a good metaphor for how "buying your freedoms" is done in most countries via bribery and corruption.

Originally Posted by Iolo

Staying alive is most important to me. Civil liberties are the liberties of the rich, not our people, to do as they please, and economic liberty is the right of the very rich to rob us ragged. The government is the Central Committeee of the boss class, and they own the media too. You are asking, essentially, how we think our masters might like to exploit us. Silly question.

There is some truth to this, but personally, I view it more as a question of how far a government is allowed to go in intervening in individual's lives. The political culture/ideology of a country largely determines what the public finds acceptable via government. If your culture expects the government to stay out of a given realm of life, then it's harder for the government to get involved. If your culture expects the government to protect a given right, then the public's actions also reflect this.

While the powers that be can certainly deceive and mislead the masses, it's still important for the public to have expectations and values that respect certain rights.

For example, it took a major paradigm shift in perceptions for Americans to accept integration. The Civil Rights Movement was a very important evolutionary step for our culture.

Originally Posted by Beevee

Tell that to an employee of Homeland Security as they grab your gonads at a US international airport.

Despite all the noise made about our airports, I've been to airports in other countries where the policies aren't any different. In the UK, they have body scanners, where they can see through your clothing. You're effectively strip searched. In Canada, their equivalent of the TSA isn't that different. In Ireland, they use the scanners just like the U.K.

So honestly, I don't see a whole lot of difference between having your nuts grabbed and having your nuts visible to whoever is running the machine. By the way, I've never had a patdown at an airport.

You can usually avoid having one done by:

1) walking through the metal detector without arguing

2) not acting strangely in general

I am not happy unless I get my nuts grabbed at the airport... whats everybody complaining about?

P.S I highly reccomend wearing a turban , mirrored sunglasses, a tight fitting pink T shirt, really baggy cargo shorts and cowboy boots to the airport (doesnt hurt to goose step everywhere either)

Originally Posted by Serfin' USA

There is some truth to this, but personally, I view it more as a question of how far a government is allowed to go in intervening in individual's lives. The political culture/ideology of a country largely determines what the public finds acceptable via government. If your culture expects the government to stay out of a given realm of life, then it's harder for the government to get involved. If your culture expects the government to protect a given right, then the public's actions also reflect this.

While the powers that be can certainly deceive and mislead the masses, it's still important for the public to have expectations and values that respect certain rights.

For example, it took a major paradigm shift in perceptions for Americans to accept integration. The Civil Rights Movement was a very important evolutionary step for our culture.

I take your point, but your attitudes are based on contemporary American prosperity. If I were starving I'd prefer the government to intervene in my personal life and feed me. If there is no rain, rugged individual leads to cannibalism, I suppose. I'm against it.

Originally Posted by Serfin' USA

In Ireland, they use the scanners just like the U.K.

What airport?

Originally Posted by ryanm34

What airport?

The one in Dublin appeared to have scanners. I could be mistaken though. Ireland, in general, does seem more laid back than America, Canada, and the U.K. when it comes to security.

Originally Posted by Serfin' USA

The one in Dublin appeared to have scanners. I could be mistaken though. Ireland, in general, does seem more laid back than America, Canada, and the U.K. when it comes to security.

There is one on trial at the staff entrance where they can opt to have it or not, it is not expected that it will be rolled out across the airport.