Yes its called SERE school! Great point! Americans should never let innocent Americans die because of a principal!

Gonna have to guide me here. You'd get my pin because I'm out of mind with fear, and you'll be easily able to test what I say. How often is the same true of the information gathered from those being tortured?

As Senax's post- yeah getting your people used to being under the effect of tortue isn't a new idea, and doesn't mean the activity isn't torture when used for its normal function. Its irrelevant what your enemies do, you're supposed to set your own standards- above such factors.

Torture doesn't mean saving innocent lives, theres a chance it will- it still doesn't change the nature of the beast- the act itself is still terrible. Even if it saved the world as consequence, the act doesn't change.

btw Toby, your 1st posts seem to me to be against waterboarding(descrptive, oldinfo part, long list of questionable admissions), yet they've been taken for support. Could you clarify your position?

I think its telling the primary advocate of anti-torture legislation in Washington... who has BTW been tortured himself and still shows the results...... voted against this bill.

What this says (besides my already knowing it) is that the Bill itself is seriosully flawed in some way and don't let yourselves be fooled into the Democrat/Media driven routine that its all about one specific act. Its not.

Anyone who states that they "will not under any circumstances use torture" has no business being President.

The general news media again has showns a lack of integrity in news reporting by running headlines saying Waterboarding in them.

__________________
"We make war that we may live in peace"
"...peace is the highest aspiration of the American People. We will negotiate for it, sacrifice for it, we will never surrender for it, now or ever."
"War critics can no longer credibly argue that we are losing in Iraq, so now they argue the war costs too much."
"Oderint dum metuant"
http://members.cox.net/neddy/bobhope_kerfuffles.wmv
http://youtube.com/watch?v=RnfflRNpwKA
http://youtube.com/watch?v=j-QYIP7o2-A

No, apparently its about several such acts. You really shouldn't state what it isn't, without then stating what it is. One might think you don't actually know.

So you're for the use of torture again? Marvellous, lets not learn from history, lets not maintain the slightest of moral high grounds. Oh and if you're discussing the issue of torture, yeah the entire point is that when "those circumstances" come, thast the one time you really have to focus on not using it.

I find it amazing that some people think it so horrible that Khalid Sheik Mohammed suffered some discomfort for 2 1/2 minutes----discomfort he was in charge of stopping at any moment by signaling that he was ready to talk----when he was the one who devised the 9/11 plan. For a review of those of you, including John McCain, who seems to have forgotten: that plan caused horrendous suffering, fear and pain----as hundreds, thousands, were trapped in a 110 story building with no way out. It was so horrible, many jumped out of that building to die more quickly and escape the horror. Now, folks....THAT IS TORTURE!!!!

Do I care that this man and two other top Al Qaeda leaders suffered for a couple of minutes? NO, I DO NOT.

Am I glad that they gave up information that led to the capture or killing of other top Al Qaeda members and stopped some plans to kill more Americans? YOU BETCHA!

Am I upset that the libs of this country have taken this important (but rarely used tool) away from our CIA professionals? ABSOLUTELY!!

Do I care to hear from one of these libs next time there's a horrendous terrorist attack that kills many of their fellow Americans---crying, "why doesn't the president do something, why didn't he prevent it?" NO, I DO NOT!

__________________
"This is a time for a national imperative not to fail in Iraq." Condoleeza Rice, January 11, 2007

If we can't waterboard the terrorists because its torture, perhaps we could just pull their fingernails out or something.


Would it be torture to make them listen to Hillary Clinton's speeches?

__________________
"We should Invade Their Countries, Kill Their Leaders, and Convert Them to Christianity." Ann Coulter
There is a fine line between a subtle nuance and an extreme dichotomy! - PatriotNews

I wouldn't hessatate for a second. I would waterboard to save one innocent life.

.
if you want your country to act like barbaren like bin Laden an d Al Qaeda who are enemy t o liberté, then do torture like waterbording. if you want your country to speak for freedom an d human right i n the world leader like U.S., Canada, UK, then you dont torture people. there ar e diferant ways t o make people talk.
.

__________________
Globalisation has made us more vulnerable. It creates a world without borders, and makes us painfully aware of the limitations to meet its challenges.
Anna Lindh

Everything will be all right when people stop thinking of the United Nations as a weird Picasso abstraction and see it as a drawing they made themselves.
Dag Hammarskjold

It's not only hockey, it's every sport. You know, it's a big event.
Peter Forsberg

Why isn't there ever a legitimate ethical debate about this? Haven't see one on this site.

__________________
Blade: "more educated and literate people than Justabubba"

Justabubba: "that would include everyone"

http://politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=27847