http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/11/agent.tapes/

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/...e-cia-bro.html

http://waterboarding.org/

What Waterboarding Is
Waterboarding induces panic and suffering by forcing a person to inhale water into the sinuses, pharynx, larynx, trachea, and lungs.

The head is tilted back and water is poured into the upturned mouth or nose. Eventually the subject cannot exhale more air or cough out more water, the lungs are collapsed, and the sinuses and trachea are filled with water. The subject is drowned from the inside, filling with water from the head down. The chest and lungs are kept higher than the head so that coughing draws water up and into the lungs while avoiding total suffocation. "His sufferings must be that of a man who is drowning, but cannot drown."

Waterboarding is not:

upright or face-down dunking: People dunked face-first in water can keep water out for as long as they can hold their breath. When one is inclined with the head back, holding one's breath will not prevent the upper respiratory tract from filling with water.

asphyxiation: Survivors of near-drowning experiences report that the sensation of water flooding down the larynx and trachea as they struggle to breathe is the most terrifying aspect of the experience. In waterboarding, this begins quickly, long before the onset of oxygen starvation.

submersion: Waterboarding does not require immersion in standing water. Someone can be waterboarded with as little as a canteen or two of water.

slowly dripping water on the forehead: Several types of water-based tortures have been used in Asia, but the famous "Chinese Water Torture" demonstrated in Mythbusters Episode 25 is very different than waterboarding.

a simulation: Waterboarding is actually forcing large quantities of water into the pharynx, trachea, and lungs, inducing choking and gagging in the subject.

2008 Candidates Oppose or Ignore Congressional Ban on Waterboarding


NAY


NO VOTE


NO VOTE

Waterboarding Success Stories: Khalid Shaikh Mohammed and Library Tower

The waterboarding of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed is often cited as one of the major waterboarding "success stories". ABC News reporter Brian Ross credited waterboarding for the crucial information used to avert the destruction of Library Tower.

ROSS: That has happened in some cases where the material that's been given has not been accurate, has been essentially to stop the torture. In the case of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the information was very valuable, particularly names and addresses of people who were involved with al Qaeda in this country and in Europe. And in one particular plot, which would involve an airline attack on the tallest building in Los Angeles, known as the Library Tower.

The US Bank Tower plot was revealed to the public by President Bush on February 9, 2006 in a speech to the National Guard Association:

In the weeks after September the 11th, while Americans were still recovering from an unprecedented strike on our homeland, al Qaeda was already busy planning its next attack. We now know that in October 2001, Khalid Shaykh Muhammad -- the mastermind of the September the 11th attacks -- had already set in motion a plan to have terrorist operatives hijack an airplane using shoe bombs to breach the cockpit door, and fly the plane into the tallest building on the West Coast. We believe the intended target was Liberty [sic] Tower in Los Angeles, California.

Rather than use Arab hijackers as he had on September the 11th, Khalid Shaykh Muhammad sought out young men from Southeast Asia -- whom he believed would not arouse as much suspicion. To help carry out this plan, he tapped a terrorist named Hambali [Riduan Isamuddin], one of the leaders of an al Qaeda affiliated group in Southeast Asia called "J-I" [Jemaah Islamiyah]. JI terrorists were responsible for a series of deadly attacks in Southeast Asia, and members of the group had trained with al Qaeda. Hambali recruited several key operatives who had been training in Afghanistan. Once the operatives were recruited, they met with Osama bin Laden, and then began preparations for the West Coast attack.

Their plot was derailed in early 2002 when a Southeast Asian nation arrested a key al Qaeda operative. Subsequent debriefings and other intelligence operations made clear the intended target, and how al Qaeda hoped to execute it. This critical intelligence helped other allies capture the ringleaders and other known operatives who had been recruited for this plot. The West Coast plot had been thwarted.

Which aspects of this plot could Khalid Shaikh Mohammed's waterboarding have revealed?

We learned about Al Qaeda's interest in flying planes into buildings on September 11, 2001.

We knew about Al Qaeda's use of shoe bombs from Richard Reid, captured in December 22, 2001.

We knew about Jemaah Islamiyah at least since the Bali Bomb attack on October 12, 2002.

The "key al Qaeda operative" and pilot for the plot, Zaini Zakari, was arrested by Malaysian authorities in December 2002.

Khalid Shaikh Mohammed was captured in Rawalpindi, Pakistan on March 1, 2003 — after the plot was discovered, after the plot was "derailed", after the pilot of the plane was captured. Khaled Sheikh Mohammed could not have "provided valuable information and saved lives" when all aspects of the plot were well-known and the attack had been foiled prior to his capture.

Coercive interrogation is extremely effective at obtaining confessions. Evidence obtained from coercive interrogation is highly dubious and must be corroborated with reliable sources. The claims of interrogators who coerce their prisoners should be treated with as much skepticism as the claims of the prisoners themselves.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6452789.stm


Khalid Sheikh Mohammed's '31 plots'
The alleged mastermind of the 9/11 attacks, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, has admitted his role in them, and 30 other terror plots around the world, in a hearing at Guantanamo Bay, the Pentagon has said. According to partial transcript of the closed-door hearing, released by the US defence department, the suspect confessed to the following attacks or plots.

1. The 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center in New York City that killed six people and injured more than 1,000.

2. The 11 September 2001 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon in Washington using four hijacked commercial airliners. Nearly 3,000 people were killed.

3. A failed "shoe bomber" operation to bring down two US commercial airliners.

4. The October 2002 attack in Kuwait that killed two US soldiers.

5. The nightclub bombing in Bali, Indonesia that killed 202 people.

6. A plan for a "second wave" of attacks on major US landmarks after 9/11 attacks. Alleged targets included the Library Tower in Los Angeles, the Sears Tower in Chicago, the Plaza Bank building in Seattle and the Empire State Building in New York.

7. Plots to attack oil tankers and US naval ships in the Straits of Hormuz, the Straits of Gibraltar and in Singapore.

8. A plan to blow up the Panama Canal.

9. Plans to assassinate former US presidents including Jimmy Carter.

10. A plot to blow up suspension bridges in New York.

11. A plan to destroy the Sears Tower in Chicago by burning fuel trucks beneath or around it.

12. Plans to "destroy" Heathrow Airport, Canary Wharf and Big Ben in London.

13. A planned attack on "many" nightclubs in Thailand targeting US and British citizens.

14. A plot targeting the New York Stock Exchange and other US financial targets after 9/11.

15. A plan to destroy buildings in Elat, Israel, by using planes flying from Saudi Arabia.

16. Plans to destroy US embassies in Indonesia, Australia and Japan.

17. Plots to destroy Israeli embassies in India, Azerbaijan, the Philippines and Australia.

18. Surveying and financing an attack on an Israeli El-Al flight from Bangkok.

19. Sending several "mujahideen" into Israel to survey "strategic targets" with the intention of attacking them.

20. The November 2002 suicide bombing of a hotel in Mombasa, Kenya, frequented by Israelis. At least 14 people were killed.

21. The failed attempt to shoot down an Israeli passenger jet leaving Mombasa airport with a surface-to-air missile on the same day as the hotel bombing.

22. Plans to attack US targets in South Korea, such as US military bases and nightclubs frequented by US soldiers.

23. Providing financial support for a plan to attack US, British and Jewish targets in Turkey.

24. Surveillance of US nuclear power plants in order to attack them.

25. A plot to attack Nato's headquarters in Europe.

26. Planning and surveillance in a 1995 plan (the "Bojinka Operation") to bomb 12 American passenger jets, most on trans-Pacific Ocean routes.

27. The planned assassination attempt against then-US President Bill Clinton during a mid-1990s trip to the Philippines.

28. "Shared responsibility" for a plot to kill Pope John Paul II while he visited the Philippines.

29. Plans to assassinate Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf.

30. An attempt to attack a US oil company in Sumatra, Indonesia, "owned by the Jewish former [US] Secretary of State Henry Kissinger".

31. The beheading of Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl, who was kidnapped in Pakistan in January 2002 while researching Islamist militancy.

I'd waterboard my neighbor if he won't stop his dog from barking.

And for my response you can substitue Australian lives, if you think that matters. Or my own, which is probably more relevant. Very much no.

If you're tortured you're going to admit to anything, just to make it stop. Theres no-way to know from only torturing if they are telling the truth- sure you might get some good leads, but you're going to get alot of bad ones too. It sickens me that under Bush this subject has been ressurected.

Edit- should have read all of that before. Thanks btw, I didn't know what it was exactly before.

The United States military uses waterboarding on American recruits undergoing pilot training during the escape and evasion segment of their training regimen. They do this to give our servicemen an idea of what they might go through if captured.

Pilots captured by our enemies in recent wars have had worse than this done to them. If it meant saving innocent lives, I wouldn't hesitate.

__________________
"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left."
Ecclesiastes 10:2 (NIV)

There are documented cases where waterboarding was successful in extracting accurate information, as Toby has pointed out.

Of course, waterboarding isn't torture.



I'm willing to take that chance!!!!


Thank God George Bush is willing to do whatever it takes to defend our great nation against the evil islamo-faggots.

By the way, if you really have a problem with torture you must certainly be thankful that George Bush deposed Saddam Hussein and put an end to his rape rooms, torture chambers and gay bath houses.

Indeed. Like I said you're going to get good and bad. If this is to be a matter of semantics, what do you consider to be torture?

Hmm well I'm of the opinion Bush doesn't really care about those Iraqi people- and by the xenophobia often evident on these boards that for alot of his supporters, and for him, its more of an excuse and smokescreen.

Yes I'm glad Hussein is gone, and that may work out for the best. As I felt at the time though, Bush wasn't the one to handle the situation, and its a shame that someone more competant and with better plans wasn't in power...wait gay bath houses? Why is that in the same sentence with rape and torture?

For comedic relief. I find that if people can joke around a little while debating they are less likely to take things personally and have a little fun in the process.

And, of course, any heterosexual male would consider gay bath houses on par with rape and torture.

So how long have you been gay?

To paraphrase Pratchett:

'YES, I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY YOU USED THE WORDS "BOOM-BOOM" AT THE END' said Death.

'Well, it shows its a joke doesn't it?'

'AH, I CAN SEE WHY THAT WOULD BE NECASSARY'

Don't skip the rest of the post .

I like maybey !! or maybey not !!

__________________
"I was born at night, but it was not last night night"