Political Forum
     

Go Back   Political Forum > General Political Chat > Opinion POLLS


View Poll Results: What's your stance?
I believe in both AGW and Evolution. 11 47.83%
I believe in AGW, but not Evolution. 1 4.35%
I believe in Evolution, but not AGW. 7 30.43%
I do not believe in either Evolution or AGW. 2 8.70%
Undecided / Other 2 8.70%
Voters: 23. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2008, 07:45 AM
MasTequila's Avatar
MasTequila MasTequila is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,334
usa us illinois
MasTequila has a reputation beyond reputeMasTequila has a reputation beyond reputeMasTequila has a reputation beyond reputeMasTequila has a reputation beyond reputeMasTequila has a reputation beyond reputeMasTequila has a reputation beyond reputeMasTequila has a reputation beyond reputeMasTequila has a reputation beyond reputeMasTequila has a reputation beyond reputeMasTequila has a reputation beyond reputeMasTequila has a reputation beyond repute
Credits: 32,562
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by masterproctor View Post
I would just like to clarify that Evolution is not a "Hotly contested theory." Intelligent design holds very little credibility and is supported by very few scientists.
So overwhelming scientific support without the ability to prove or recreate is rationale for belief? Flat earth?
__________________
Barack Obama 144 lies and counting.

Liberals believe it is okay to kill babies, but not terrorists.

democrats believe it is okay to taser a 10 year old if this stance will get their guy elected.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Red Cross - Donate Today    Save the Rainforest
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2008, 07:52 AM
JavaBlack's Avatar
JavaBlack JavaBlack is online now
Site Moderator
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Michigan
Age: 29
Posts: 16,350
usa us michigan
JavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond repute
Credits: 109,539
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MasTequila View Post
So overwhelming scientific support without the ability to prove or recreate is rationale for belief? Flat earth?
Bad analogy.
Flat earth has been empirically disproven.
Evolution has stood up to test after test.

Science does not always require recreating. That is impossible in some cases.
Some phenomena are supported by the consequences of their existence- like most of physics.

To "recreate" evolution is a silly notion. The closest we can do is observe all animal life for millions of years and keep really close tabs.
But that will, of course, require that humans stick around on this planet for millions of years and keep really good track of zoology.
__________________
"Man lives in the sunlit world of that which he believes to be reality. But unseen by most is an underworld, a place that is just as real... but not as brightly lit... A DARK SIDE!"
-opening from Tales From the Darkside
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2008, 07:56 AM
MasTequila's Avatar
MasTequila MasTequila is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,334
usa us illinois
MasTequila has a reputation beyond reputeMasTequila has a reputation beyond reputeMasTequila has a reputation beyond reputeMasTequila has a reputation beyond reputeMasTequila has a reputation beyond reputeMasTequila has a reputation beyond reputeMasTequila has a reputation beyond reputeMasTequila has a reputation beyond reputeMasTequila has a reputation beyond reputeMasTequila has a reputation beyond reputeMasTequila has a reputation beyond repute
Credits: 32,562
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JavaBlack View Post
Bad analogy.
Flat earth has been empirically disproven.
Evolution has stood up to test after test.

Science does not always require recreating. That is impossible in some cases.
Some phenomena are supported by the consequences of their existence- like most of physics.

To "recreate" evolution is a silly notion. The closest we can do is observe all animal life for millions of years and keep really close tabs.
But that will, of course, require that humans stick around on this planet for millions of years and keep really good track of zoology.
So evolutionary belief is based on hundreds of years of keeping tabs and extrapilating that back millions of years?
__________________
Barack Obama 144 lies and counting.

Liberals believe it is okay to kill babies, but not terrorists.

democrats believe it is okay to taser a 10 year old if this stance will get their guy elected.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2008, 08:00 AM
JavaBlack's Avatar
JavaBlack JavaBlack is online now
Site Moderator
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Michigan
Age: 29
Posts: 16,350
usa us michigan
JavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond repute
Credits: 109,539
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MasTequila View Post
So evolutionary belief is based on hundreds of years of keeping tabs and extrapilating that back millions of years?
As of now it is based on a lot of consequential data such as the fossil record.
That is why it is still theory. Until we exhaust all other possibilities, it's a theory.

I'm just explaining what would be necessary to "recreate" evolution. It could not be done in a lab environment and could not occur in a human lifetime... or even in several human lifetimes.
__________________
"Man lives in the sunlit world of that which he believes to be reality. But unseen by most is an underworld, a place that is just as real... but not as brightly lit... A DARK SIDE!"
-opening from Tales From the Darkside
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2008, 08:03 AM
MasTequila's Avatar
MasTequila MasTequila is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,334
usa us illinois
MasTequila has a reputation beyond reputeMasTequila has a reputation beyond reputeMasTequila has a reputation beyond reputeMasTequila has a reputation beyond reputeMasTequila has a reputation beyond reputeMasTequila has a reputation beyond reputeMasTequila has a reputation beyond reputeMasTequila has a reputation beyond reputeMasTequila has a reputation beyond reputeMasTequila has a reputation beyond reputeMasTequila has a reputation beyond repute
Credits: 32,562
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JavaBlack View Post
As of now it is based on a lot of consequential data such as the fossil record.
That is why it is still theory. Until we exhaust all other possibilities, it's a theory.

I'm just explaining what would be necessary to "recreate" evolution. It could not be done in a lab environment and could not occur in a human lifetime... or even in several human lifetimes.
So in our lifetime we will never know if it is indeed fact, we just need to believe or speculate that it is?

I actually agree with all your points, just trying to point out that it takes a leap of faith to believe in evolution.
__________________
Barack Obama 144 lies and counting.

Liberals believe it is okay to kill babies, but not terrorists.

democrats believe it is okay to taser a 10 year old if this stance will get their guy elected.
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2008, 08:06 AM
JavaBlack's Avatar
JavaBlack JavaBlack is online now
Site Moderator
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Michigan
Age: 29
Posts: 16,350
usa us michigan
JavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond repute
Credits: 109,539
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MasTequila View Post
I actually agree with all your points, just trying to point out that it takes a leap of faith to believe in evolution.
But of course I'd say it takes more of a skip to faith, whereas the belief in creationism requires a leap of faith across a large gap.
Evolution is still more supported by evidence than any other explanation... and keep in mind, evolution has nothing to do with whether or not there is a God or intelligence behind the universe.
Some do see evolution as sort of the "way God creates".
__________________
"Man lives in the sunlit world of that which he believes to be reality. But unseen by most is an underworld, a place that is just as real... but not as brightly lit... A DARK SIDE!"
-opening from Tales From the Darkside
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2008, 08:10 AM
MasTequila's Avatar
MasTequila MasTequila is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,334
usa us illinois
MasTequila has a reputation beyond reputeMasTequila has a reputation beyond reputeMasTequila has a reputation beyond reputeMasTequila has a reputation beyond reputeMasTequila has a reputation beyond reputeMasTequila has a reputation beyond reputeMasTequila has a reputation beyond reputeMasTequila has a reputation beyond reputeMasTequila has a reputation beyond reputeMasTequila has a reputation beyond reputeMasTequila has a reputation beyond repute
Credits: 32,562
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JavaBlack View Post
But of course I'd say it takes more of a skip to faith, whereas the belief in creationism requires a leap of faith across a large gap.
Evolution is still more supported by evidence than any other explanation... and keep in mind, evolution has nothing to do with whether or not there is a God or intelligence behind the universe.
Some do see evolution as sort of the "way God creates".
I actually believe that micro-evolution exists, but I have never seen proof of additional DNA being added to a species to make it better. I have seen changes within a species that is from a type of birth defect that makes it more suited for it's environment.

The whole argument for or against evolution and creation uses the same evidence - It is your belief that shapes the outcome of those facts in my ever so humble opinion.
__________________
Barack Obama 144 lies and counting.

Liberals believe it is okay to kill babies, but not terrorists.

democrats believe it is okay to taser a 10 year old if this stance will get their guy elected.
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2008, 08:22 AM
JavaBlack's Avatar
JavaBlack JavaBlack is online now
Site Moderator
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Michigan
Age: 29
Posts: 16,350
usa us michigan
JavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond repute
Credits: 109,539
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MasTequila View Post
The whole argument for or against evolution and creation uses the same evidence - It is your belief that shapes the outcome of those facts in my ever so humble opinion.
Accepting the facts used to support evolution...
Even if I doubed the specifics of evolution... why would I then jump to the idea that some God created everything over a few days?
I'd more likely seek another explanation that suited the facts or remain 100% agnostic on the subject than assume an explanation that is not in any way related to the facts.

Evolution is a theory created by looking at the facts themselves. Creationism begins from the assumption of creation and then goes on to dismiss facts.
It's not a matter of what you want to believe. It's the very direction that shapes the belief.

Darwin started with the evidence... He was even troubled by it. Scientists have been building on it ever since.
Creationism is not based in facts. It is assumed. And it is never built upon. The proponents simply attempt to knock down alternatives... assuming creation is the default.
__________________
"Man lives in the sunlit world of that which he believes to be reality. But unseen by most is an underworld, a place that is just as real... but not as brightly lit... A DARK SIDE!"
-opening from Tales From the Darkside
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2008, 08:32 AM
MasTequila's Avatar
MasTequila MasTequila is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,334
usa us illinois
MasTequila has a reputation beyond reputeMasTequila has a reputation beyond reputeMasTequila has a reputation beyond reputeMasTequila has a reputation beyond reputeMasTequila has a reputation beyond reputeMasTequila has a reputation beyond reputeMasTequila has a reputation beyond reputeMasTequila has a reputation beyond reputeMasTequila has a reputation beyond reputeMasTequila has a reputation beyond reputeMasTequila has a reputation beyond repute
Credits: 32,562
Default

I am one of those - assuming creation is the default

Most people I know that believe in evolution are one of these
believing that there is no God, being their default starting position.

So most, not all creation / evolution debates start with 2 people who can never come to commen ground because the belief at the beginning give neither an area to have commen ground.

So really to debate this issue you would have to start with the belief that God could have started it all and I would have to start with the belief that maybe he didn't. Then we can both openly look at the evidence and try to see what it leads us to believe. I have tried that but it always comes back to trying to figure out how it all started, which leads us back to our original positions.
__________________
Barack Obama 144 lies and counting.

Liberals believe it is okay to kill babies, but not terrorists.

democrats believe it is okay to taser a 10 year old if this stance will get their guy elected.
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2008, 08:41 AM
JavaBlack's Avatar
JavaBlack JavaBlack is online now
Site Moderator
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Michigan
Age: 29
Posts: 16,350
usa us michigan
JavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond repute
Credits: 109,539
Default

The way to avoid the conflict is to assume the irrelevance of whether there is a God or not.

Evolution focuses specifically on how physically we wound up with all this diversity of life.
And the more we look, the more it looks as though there was a system of natural selection and mutation.
It does not appear that all life was simply placed here.

Did this process begin from chaos or because there's some God who set it up or even controls it from behind the scenes? Who knows? Science can't answer that. So to science, it is an irrelevant question.
All chaos could potentially be very complicated order...
__________________
"Man lives in the sunlit world of that which he believes to be reality. But unseen by most is an underworld, a place that is just as real... but not as brightly lit... A DARK SIDE!"
-opening from Tales From the Darkside
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Core Beliefs ForceoftheTruth Political Science 46 12-24-2007 12:31 AM
What are your politics and beliefs? thedreamer Political Opinions & Beliefs 12 06-27-2007 09:11 PM
Crossover Beliefs Peter Political Opinions & Beliefs 26 10-26-2005 03:55 PM
Moderate beliefs? is that possible? Locus Political Opinions & Beliefs 22 05-13-2005 12:12 PM
Your Beliefs... FeatheredFool Political Opinions & Beliefs 34 04-17-2004 01:32 PM

Sponsored Links

All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0
Template-Modifikationen durch TMS
vBCredits v1.3 ©2007 by Darkwaltz4
Advertisement System V2.1 By   Branden