Thread: Judge orders Utah mom to chop off daughter’s ponytail in courtroom

Originally Posted by Herkdriver

Society needs to be protected.

What if your sister was attacked by a 15 year old?

Would you excuse that as lack of impulse control due to their developing brain?

Morally yes, but you are right society needs to be protected. I don't believe their should be no consequences for the actions of a 15 year old. The fact that a 15 year olds brain is not developed, which is why they are committing their violent or destructive acts, makes little difference to the fact that in their current state of development they are a potential threat to people. In those instances counseling, and possibly(in extreme cases like proclivities to violence) incarceration are justified. I just believe that medical, psychological, and scientific evidence should be used to determine when those people may have developed beyond those tendencies(which is unquestionably possible). I also think that if you told me potential punishments for juvenile crimes should be more stringent in certain circumstances, I would agree. However, a 14 year old should not be held accountable for the rest of their lives for the things they did as a child, when they were very different people than the person they will eventually develop into. Trying children as adults, makes sure those consequences stay in place, because adult records are not wiped away after a person becomes an adult, where as juvenile records ARE.

Originally Posted by frodly

Morally yes, but you are right society needs to be protected. I don't believe their should be no consequences for the actions of a 15 year old. The fact that a 15 year olds brain is not developed, which is why they are committing their violent or destructive acts, makes little difference to the fact that in their current state of development they are a potential threat to people. In those instances counseling, and possibly(in extreme cases like proclivities to violence) incarceration are justified. I just believe that medical, psychological, and scientific evidence should be used to determine when those people may have developed beyond those tendencies(which is unquestionably possible). I also think that if you told me potential punishments for juvenile crimes should be more stringent in certain circumstances, I would agree. However, a 14 year old should not be held accountable for the rest of their lives for the things they did as a child, when they were very different people than the person they will eventually develop into. Trying children as adults, makes sure those consequences stay in place, because adult records are not wiped away after a person becomes an adult, where as juvenile records ARE.

Ok, I'm not in complete disagreement with this. I certainly don't think her life should be ruined for giving someone an unauthorized haircut. However the phone calls to another teen threatening rape and mutiliation. Well let's say the juvenile courts should keep an eye on her. Her Mom is part of the problem apparently.

Originally Posted by Herkdriver

Put frodly in chage of the Courts.

The Columbine murderers weren't responsible...

A human being is only responsible after the age of 25 years old and the brain "fully develops."

No wonder this type of thinking and making excuses for personal behavior is leading us into the toilet.

13 is a bit young...but had this girl been 15 or 16, I see no reason NOT to charge her as an adult....

Certainly not waiting for some mumbo-jumbo about neuron pathways not reacing maturity until 25 years old.

Clearly Frodly has never been, or known the victim of a crime perpetrated by a younger person...
I'll lend his opinion to lack of life experience.

A "limo-liberal" who wants to go soft on crime.

You sure got that right! Nothing but liberal psychobabble....

With the proper upbringing, kids have reached the level of reason and understanding for the most part by age 7-8. They'll screw up, but usually understand why their choice was a bad one .....

Originally Posted by Hummingbird

You sure got that right! Nothing but liberal psychobabble....

With the proper upbringing, kids have reached the level of reason and understanding for the most part by age 7-8. They'll screw up, but usually understand why their choice was a bad one .....

It isn't psychology!! Brain development is part of the study of the brain, which is part of Neuroscience!!! Do try to keep up.

Originally Posted by frodly

It isn't psychology!! Brain development is part of the study of the brain, which is part of Neuroscience!!! Do try to keep up.

Frod, try to keep up yourself w/what you've stated here:

"So to imagine that people whose brains aren't developed, should be held accountable as adults, when they are provably NOT adults is ridiculous."

First of all, getting back on topic, no one said the girls should be 'held accountable as adults' - just held accountable for their actions towards someone else's child and her hair.... and you pop up w/all this babble about brain development, which sounded like you were finding excuses for them b/c they're not adults yet...... right?

Originally Posted by Angedras

I thought some of you guys might find this interesting.

Personally, I'm a bit shocked by the entire incident. To me, it's more than a little disturbing that this brat is running lose in society. Equally disturbing is that her Mom thinks that the punishment was too harsh. Wow, really?!

And apparently the daughters behavioral issues are not limited to arbitrarily abusing younger kids. Kinda gives one pause to wonder what other things may never have been caught or reported, by this obviously troubled little deviant.

What should be done with children like this one?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"A Utah judge told the mother of a 13-year-old girl who chopped off a toddler's long hair in a restaurant that he would reduce her daughter's sentence if she cut off the teenager's own ponytail in court.

District Juvenile Judge Scott Johansen gave Valerie Bruno the option to either cut off her daughter Kaytlen Lopan's long hair "right now" with courtroom scissors or have the teen spend an extra 150 hours in detention as punishment for hacking off the locks of a 3-year-old girl she befriended in a McDonald's in Price."

~ Judge orders Utah mom to chop off daughter’s ponytail in courtroom ~

My wife would react to that...honestly, the only word I can come up with is "homicidal". She would prefer the extra sentence to cutting her hair...and if the judge forced it, I honestly think she might hunt him down and kill him.

Originally Posted by Jarlaxle

My wife would react to that...honestly, the only word I can come up with is "homicidal". She would prefer the extra sentence to cutting her hair...and if the judge forced it, I honestly think she might hunt him down and kill him.

But would she think the judge was out of line in ordering these 2 girls to get hair-cuts? Particularly how he handled the 13 yr old in having her pony tail chopped off in the courthouse?

I think the punishment fit the crime.....

Bravo to the judge! What a great punishment, and her hair will grow back anyway. She had no right too hack off this little kids hair, she deserves to have her hair cut off as well. It does sound like there is something seriously wrong with her, though.

Originally Posted by Hummingbird

But would she think the judge was out of line in ordering these 2 girls to get hair-cuts? Particularly how he handled the 13 yr old in having her pony tail chopped off in the courthouse?

I think the punishment fit the crime.....

She has had at least waist-length hair since she was ten years old. It's shorter now than it used to be...right now, her hair, if not pinned up, reaches her knees.

Originally Posted by Makedde

Bravo to the judge! What a great punishment, and her hair will grow back anyway. She had no right too hack off this little kids hair, she deserves to have her hair cut off as well. It does sound like there is something seriously wrong with her, though.

it's assault, it may seem a fair judgement but it's out of line...