America's constitution affords all citizens Freedom OF Religion, NOT an America, "Free FROM religion".....rapidly religious rights are being taken away from American people practicing their beliefs.
However, the American Ku Klux Klan can demonstrate freely in the streets cross-town from me, their callous, treacherous chants; the American homosexuals can unashamedly parade in marches, ....

With a likely current expansion of a hate crime bill, American pastors and religious leaders would be prosecuted for preaching on behalf of their biblical perspectives that homosexuality is immoral (sin).

"The hate crimes provision is in the Senate Judiciary Committee as SB 1145 (Local Law Enforcement Enhancement Act), with no action being taken on it since May. But in September, the same Act was tacked on as an amendment to the Child Safety Act (H.R. 3132) and passed in the House, moving on to the Senate with the amendment (Title X of the Child Safety Act) being renamed as the Local Law Enforcement Hate Crimes Prevention Act of 2005. The hate crimes bill would be the first law by the federal government that affords special protection or benefits based on the status of sexual orientation."

I agree as a nation to punish, criminalize sex crimes and make information available to families regarding dangerous predators. However, the supplemental hate crimes amendment is unconstitutional for pastors and churches whose vocal opposition would be denounced. We should not allow federal prosecution for their differing viewpoints.

Case Examples include:

*Eleven Christians were jailed under Pennsylvania’s hate crimes law in 2004 for singing in a public park and speaking out against homosexuality;

Absolutely absurd. Muslims in Michigan recite public prayers to Allah 5X/daily around their non-practicing neighbors, unappreciate to their soundoffs on loudspeakers! Do they receive incarceration sentences?!

www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/001560.php


* In 1998, the San Francisco Board of Supervisors passed a resolution blaming religious people for hate crimes, declaring: “It is not an exaggeration to say that there is a direct correlation between these acts of discrimination, such as when gays and lesbians are called sinful and when major religious organizations say they can change if they tried, and the horrible crimes committed against gays and lesbians”;

Yeah, why not blame this on Mother Thereas too...and yes, if they have the desire and power (will or divine) to change this "alternative lifestyle", they could.

* A Canadian citizen was fined more than $6,000 for running a newspaper ad in which he quoted Leviticus 18:22, which states that homosexuality is a sin;

Free speech?

*A mayor in Canada was found to violate a human rights ordinance when she refused to declare Gay Day;

Would she be violating by not declaring any other "holiday"?..they just discriminated for this day--

* A minister in the United Kingdom was fined £20,000 (approximately $35,000 USD) for an ad that described homosexuality as an abomination;

Literature of all genres may be passed around- but Christian moral-based pieces are lit-up.

* A complaint was filed in a Dutch court against Pope John Paul, II for his statement that “homosexual acts are contrary to the laws of nature.” The Dutch court ruled the Pope’s status as the leader of the Roman Catholic Church and the Vatican State afforded him immunity from prosecution. But other religious leaders would not be immune.

*Discrimination of religious beliefs by force of unjust legal action*

In a press release, Liberty Counsel unblindingly concluded: “… if the hate crimes bill passes the Senate, it will be coupled with the Hate Crimes Reporting Act of 1990 which mandated that the FBI include intimidation in its reporting of statistics on hate crimes. Therefore, because intimidation may also be considered a hate crime, ministers or religious organizations who speak out against homosexuality are in danger of being labeled with a hate crime.”

No matter what religious affiliation you have or not, this legislation is in covert operation and needs stamped out (by more media coverage, contacted reps..)!
Eventually, we will be the America, joined to the list of "prospering," godless, nations free of God and full of directionless selves.

Protagoras: Man is the measure of all things. --->the lie of human autonomy

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~Crayola Skies for a thousand miles~

wow, you find like what, 10 crimes... the whole world is coming to an end!!!

There are many ways to refute the position advocating extended rights to homosexual individuals--biblical references are the weakest of these arguments. If you think Christianity is discriminated against, you are no better than every other lamentation claiming the same. The mere fact that Christians represent 76% of the population shows that discrimination is almost an impossibility. I can't stand religious activists of any variety, but Christians are by far the worst. Maybe it should be a "country free FROM religion"...

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"Don't get the impression that you arouse my anger. You see, one can only be angry with those he respects." -- Richard Nixon

And.... 4 of your 6 examples are from Canada, Holland and the U.K. What does that have to do with America?

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Man up.

Whether those protestors rights were breached or not. I have no sympathy for people attacking ones right to choose their own sexuality. Christians aren't at harm by the increasing rights of homos so why are they trying to harm homos by revoking their rights?

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It is more patriotic when you don't ask questions

These little snippits of incidents don't do much to help us understand the charges. People singing usually don't get arrested for a hate crime... maybe for obstruction, but not for a hate crime. How vocal were they against homosexuals? This is an important question. For all your snippits tell me, they might have been advocating violence. In any case, this doesn't hold equal ground with the Moslems praying, because there is no mention of the Moslems speaking out against others.
The most disturbing part is that you follow up the snippits with yet another conspiracy theory. "Covert Operation". You actually believe that there is some force in our government whose main purpose is to destroy Christianity. If you're going to imagine supervillains you could at least imagine more entertaining ones who want to block out the sun or drain the water supply.

Religious liberty is in danger in America? LOL I'm sorry, but that is akin to saying that free speech liberty is in danger because a person is not allowed to threaten the life of the president or scream "fire!" in a movie theater.

I believe that Christian groups should be legally allowed to put whatever they like in the newspaper and I oppose all "hate crime" legislation (since when did people assault and kill each other because they "loved one another"), but I think it is unseemly (to say the least) when Christian groups use Leviticus as a weapon against homosexuals. The bible allows some rather heinous behavior and it disallows a lot of behavior in which even Christians engage.

Paul tells us not to judge one another, and I think we could all do better to follow his advice. I think that Christians would do better to mind their own souls and allow God to judge "sinners" as He chooses.

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"George W. Bush surrounds himself with smart people the way a hole surrounds itself with a donut." —Dennis Miller

Be sure to thank them for teaching you what a mixed metaphor is, too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by raytri";p=&quot And.... 4 of your 6 examples are from Canada, Holland and the U.K. What does that have to do with America?

It shows what very real discrimination IS being exercised in other countries, the more "socially correct." I provided degrees of discrimination that's not far and away from happening here on American soil. Raytri, we are not immune. The ACLU organization is aligned with this intolerant thinking.

Javablack quote:
These little snippits of incidents don't do much to help us understand the charges. People singing usually don't get arrested for a hate crime... maybe for obstruction, but not for a hate crime. How vocal were they against homosexuals? This is an important question. For all your snippits tell me, they might have been advocating violence. In any case, this doesn't hold equal ground with the Moslems praying, because there is no mention of the Moslems speaking out against others. The most disturbing part is that you follow up the snippits with yet another conspiracy theory. "Covert Operation". You actually believe that there is some force in our government whose main purpose is to destroy Christianity.

You're absolutely right. There exists a powerful force, so-called the ACLU. JavaBlack, I can't possibly contain in one concise post every finite detail of every issue. These events indeed occurred.

I invite you to view this enlightening site: http://www.leaderu.com/real/ri9402/aclu.html
to get a comprehensive look at the unfair agenda the ACLU and the like propagate.
Below is an excerpt from: http://www.reclaimamerica.org/PAGES/...asp?story=1149
that depicts their absurdity:

"Finally, it was reported in January 2002, that a blatantly pro-Islam curriculum was being used in at least one California public school. According to World Net Daily, this three-week course "mandates that seventh-graders learn the tenets of Islam, study the important figures of the faith, wear a robe, adopt a Muslim name and stage their own jihad. In addition, "students must memorize many verses in the Koran, are taught to pray 'in the name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful' and are instructed to chant, 'Praise to Allah, Lord of Creation.'

The California-based Pacific Justice Institute filed a complaint with the public schools, and has been involved with this issue since the story broke. According to the Institute, the ACLU has done nothing to remove these Islamic teachings from the public school.

As one teacher, Elizabeth Lemings, pointed out, "We can't even mention the name of Jesus in the public schools, but … they teach Islam as the true religion, and students are taught about Islam and how to pray to Allah. Can you imagine the barrage of lawsuits and problems we would have from the ACLU if Christianity were taught in the public schools, and if we tried to teach about the contributions of Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and the Apostle Paul? But when it comes to furthering the Islamic religion in the public schools, there is not one word from the ACLU, People for the American Way or anybody else. This is hypocrisy."

JB: If you're going to imagine supervillains you could at least imagine more entertaining ones who want to block out the sun or drain the water supply.

The global warming crowd have got me on that one.

Since you truly wanted to see more evidence, I supplied some. I've given add'l sources to peruse if you so choose.

Myth of the tolerant left: www.sobran.com/columns/2002/021031.shtml
The ACLU is an organization that needs to be isolated, exposed for what it is, recognized for what it is and fought against if necessary.

Instead, because most Americans have a live-and-let-live attitude, we "tolerate" the ACLU. We wink at it. Maybe we laugh at it. But the ACLU and its allies continue to push our society, to transform it, to remake it in its own twisted image. Hope this helps- wish I had more time to compile a research project out of it.

PJO34 quote:
Religious liberty is in danger in America? LOL I'm sorry, but that is akin to saying that free speech liberty is in danger because a person is not allowed to threaten the life of the president or scream "fire!" in a movie theater.
I believe that Christian groups should be legally allowed to put whatever they like in the newspaper and I oppose all "hate crime" legislation (since when did people assault and kill each other because they "loved one another"), but I think it is unseemly (to say the least) when Christian groups use Leviticus as a weapon against homosexuals. The bible allows some rather heinous behavior and it disallows a lot of behavior in which even Christians engage.

First of all, yelling "fire" illegitamately is not allowed, esp. in crowded pubic places (i.e. your movie theater) because it endangers people's lives. Someone could be trampled on and killed.

Leviticus is part of the Bible, which is the Christian's compass and guide for life. So, in their hearts and minds, they are following a higher authority rather than themselves as a measuring stick. Christians are people and by default are sinners. I think it's trivial to say, "ooo look, their Bible says it's wrong, but they do it"---in any religion, you have people with stronger convictions that adhere than others.

PJ: Paul tells us not to judge one another, and I think we could all do better to follow his advice. I think that Christians would do better to mind their own souls and allow God to judge "sinners" as He chooses.

Does not judging mean we can't tell others if they are doing something wrong? No. What kind of judicial system would we have? None -without making judgement calls. Jesus frequently taught people right from wrong, based on God's Word. The Bible tells us to be discerning. But we should worry most about ourselves and help others overcome sin in their lives, rather than seeking to find faults in others' lives.

The Apostle Paul wrote, "I speak as to wise men; judge ye what I say" (1 Corinthians 10:15). Again, Paul declared, "He that is spiritual judgeth all things" (1 Corinthians 2:15). It is our positive duty to judge....:
--------->www.wayoflife.org/fbns/fbns/fbns173.html
SCROLL down some to: The Scripture Commands to Judge

"I would like to illustrate what we are talking about and why it is so necessary to consult the whole counsel of God in a matter instead of just picking one or two “PET” verses on a subject. Two of the favorite verses Liberals use when it comes to putting down Evangelical Christians who stand for Biblical principles and morals are:...."
--------->http://www.christianarsenal.com/Apol...iscernment.htm
other sites of reference:
--------->http://www.backtothebible.org/radio/today/25816
--------->www.prophecyupdate.com/matthew_chapter_7.htm

Ezekiel 44_23-24: "And they shall teach my people the difference between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean. 24 And in controversy they shall stand in judgment; and they shall judge it according to my judgments: and they shall keep my laws and my statutes in all mine assemblies; and they shall hallow my sabbaths."

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"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." -Bill Cosby

~Crayola Skies for a thousand miles~

One, you're using World Net Daily as a source. First mistake. And they're actually citing an even less-reputable source, Assist News Service.

Second, you're blaming the ACLU for something *they didn't do*. Are they now to be held responsible for every lawsuit they conceivably could have filed, but didn't?

Third, here's the Truth or Fiction assessment of the claim:
http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/b/byronislam.htm

Methinks you should have some harsh words for WND and Accept for recklessly disseminating false and inflammatory rumors.

Yeah, God knows we don't want our civil liberties protected. There's no way a sitting president, for instance, would ever assert the right to imprison an American citizen for an indefinite period of time, without access to a lawyer, simply by declaring him an "enemy combatant."

The ACLU (or more accurately, certain of its local chapters) occasionally does some odd things, but overall they take a very sensible approach to the role of religion in public life. Student prayer? Okay. Teacher-led or school-sponsored prayer? Not okay.

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Man up.