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View Poll Results: Which Candidate Would You Vote For?
Ralph Nader 4 80.00%
Alan Keyes 1 20.00%
Voters: 5. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-06-2005, 04:48 PM
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Default A Poll for Libertarians

Although I am a populist, this is not a flame bait thread. I am not trying to aggravate libertarians. On the contrary, I am genuinely curious to see which freedoms libertarians value most. Ignoring whether or not you like their personalities or backgrounds, would you, if you had no choice but to vote for one or the other, vote for Ralph Nader or Alan Keyes? Ralph Nader is a strong social libertarian. For example, he supports legalizing the recreational use of marijuana. However, he also supports strong government control over corporate behavior and over the distribution of wealth. Alan Keyes is essentially laissez-faire on economics. He supports replacing the income tax with a national sales tax, for example. However, he supports strong government control over social activities. For example, he opposes the separation of church and state and called all homosexuals "selfish hedonists". Please vote only if you consider yourself a libertarian. Any comments?
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Old 11-06-2005, 06:09 PM
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Default f

shouldnt this be nader vs buchanan?
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Old 11-06-2005, 06:14 PM
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Default No

No, Buchanan opposes free trade and is not always considered a fiscal conservative.
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Old 11-07-2005, 04:50 AM
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Default Define Libertarian

Long before the existance (well not that long- still within the last couple hundred years) of the American Libertarian party, the word libertarian was more of a broad category, more or less synonymous with anarchism. The two main schools of thought were anarcho-socialists and anarcho-capitalists. It's all a matter of whether you believe a Stateless society would function better through competition or cooperation. Anarchosocialists would side with Nader because property is theft. Anarchocapitalists would most likely choose Keyes as lesser of two evils. The difference is that anarchosocialists are more represented by the Greens than by any other US party, while anarchocapitalists have their own party.
I used to be more of a Libertarian. Then I realized that government was not the sole creator of social problems. Aside from the economic problems, culture is the main catalyst for evil. Unfortunately it is impossible to have a human race without culture. Culture is our defining characteristic and that which has led us to defeat evolution. But it carries baggage. Government is simply an aspect of culture. In order to get rid of government we'd need a culture that does not need government.
People often say that we need laws against murder. I say it is a shame that we need laws against murder. This would almost make me an ally with conservatives who wish to let their culture dominate and lessen government that way, Christianity originally being the only force to offset the ruthlessness of capitalism. But more and more it occurs that their culture is one that is of forced belief rather than true compassion, of perpetuating violence, of imbedded inequality- and they can't fix it because they're so blind to it. And this is what would take over if the government was dissolved right now, even ignoring the more dangerous cultures found in inner cities.
The only question is one of how can culture be manipulated into one that needs no government, with as little help from the government as possible? It will require nothing less than a revolution, one person at a time.
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Old 11-07-2005, 05:29 AM
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Default Hmm.

Isn't it a contradiction in terms for a Libertarian to vote for a political candidate?
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Old 11-07-2005, 06:33 AM
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Default Yes

Quote:
Originally Posted by heikstheo";p=&quot View Post
Isn't it a contradiction in terms for a Libertarian to vote for a political candidate?
But what can ya do?
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Old 11-07-2005, 07:02 AM
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Default Why would it be a contradiction?

I don't follow. Granted, hell would freeze over before I voted for Nader or Keyes, but there are candidates I would vote for.
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Old 11-07-2005, 07:25 AM
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Default But...

voting is in a way validating the system. It's calling for certain elites to come into power and work for the people's interests rather than having the people work together for their own interests independent of government. Still it is the simplest way to effect the government and allow for more freedom, so what can ya do? It's part of the process for the long run, but in the short run it does appear pretty contradictory.
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Old 11-07-2005, 07:31 AM
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Default I'm not sure how!

Libertarians are not against having a government. In order to have a government with Libertarian principles you have to elect Libertarian officials!
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Old 11-07-2005, 08:25 AM
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Default Libertarian Capitalism

In this case I am defining libertarianism as a less extreme variation on anarcho-capitalist beliefs, such as is espoused by the LP.
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