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Old 12-12-2005, 11:55 AM
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Default Libertarianism

I am a centrist or a liberal depending on who you ask, but since libertarianism is often pushed outside the mainstream of political discourse, I decided to start a thread for libertarians. I don't just mean members of the LP, of course, but rather anyone who supports the ideology of libertarianism. I'll stay out of the thread except to ask an occasional question. I'll start out with two very basic questions. First, what is libertarianism on the most basic level? Second, how should its principles be applied?
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Old 12-12-2005, 12:02 PM
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Best answer comes right from the party platform:

"Libertarians believe that you have the right to live your life as you wish, without the government interfering -- as long as you don’t violate the rights of others. Politically, this means Libertarians favor rolling back the size and cost of government, and eliminating laws that stifle the economy and control people’s personal choices."

"Unlike liberals or conservatives, Libertarians advocate a high degree of both personal and economic liberty. For example, Libertarians agree with conservatives about freedom in economic matters, so we're in favor of lowering taxes, slashing bureaucratic regulation of business, and charitable -- rather than government -- welfare. But Libertarians also agree with liberals on personal tolerance, so we're in favor of people’s right to choose their own personal habits and lifestyles."

"In a sense, Libertarians “borrow” from both sides to come up with a logical and consistent whole -- but without the exceptions and broken promises of Republican and Democratic politicians. That's why we call ourselves the Party of Principle."
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Old 12-12-2005, 12:07 PM
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Default ?

Since bureaucracy and a strong measure of government control are currently the norm, how do libertarians want to put their principles into practice?
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Old 12-12-2005, 12:13 PM
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Default Slowly.

People have to be weaned from the Nanny state slowly, so you would not see too many major changes right out of the shoot.
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Old 12-12-2005, 12:19 PM
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If that is the case, then I fail to see why I tend to be a Democrat rather than a Libertarian in most cases. I tend to believe in slow weaning off of the State and I'm socially liberal as all Hell. Despite this, I know I have disagreements with the Libertarians. But what are they? (strange question, know)
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Old 12-12-2005, 01:08 PM
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Default If I knew all your positions I could tell you!

Also keep in mind that Libertarians are an independent lot. Very few of us tow the company line on every issue and the definition of "small government" varies. It's very common to have wide disagreement over the "official" platform. The Party contains Libertarians across the spectrum from extreme to light. For example, the party supports legalization of drugs. All drugs. I don't. The party thinks you can ensure a clean environment by relying on market forces to work. I disagree. But here's what we all have in common: We are fiscally conservative and socially liberal.
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Old 12-12-2005, 01:23 PM
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Points that ally me with Libertarians:
socially liberal on just about every issue, moreso than Democrats...
moving welfare toward education and work, keeping handouts only for the disabled and elderly.. (also some Crats take this position).
Open toward private sector help over government aid (but not certain about it)
Understand economic reality of bureaucracy being inefficient and distant...

Crats:
disbelief that charity can take over completely for government without fundamental social change...
liberal rather than isolationist foreign policy tendencies (this may be the one that tips the scale)
strong belief that we need equality of opportunity and that kids should not be held accountable for parent's poverty- and that we as a society have moral (not necessarily legal) obligation to aid people in redemption for past sins or mistakes if they volunteer for help and do some work to prove themselves...
belief that there will always be some unemployed and they will need help
belief that society needs to focus some funding on science and research if the private sector cannot maintain it and heavy belief in the importance of education for all...

All this said, I'm somewhere between the Libertarians and the Crats (but at least I know I'm not a Pub). I think I'm probably more of a Crat, but I am not necessarily sure that my more Democratic foci are exclusive from the Libertarians since I don't understand many of their stances. Though I think my views on education and foreign policy might disqualify me from the LP.
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Old 12-12-2005, 01:28 PM
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Default .

Since JavaBlack listed his views, I'll do the same, though by quoting an earlier post of mine. How would this go over with the LP? Give it a percentage rating:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ForceoftheTruth";p=&quot View Post
That is a good question. My core values, to list them as that "typology" test would, are that I am pro-life and pro-immigrant. I've grown to respect the separation of church and state. I oppose the death penalty and the Patriot Act. I am in the center on foreign policy and fiscal issues, believing in shifting the emphasis of welfare programs towards work training. I support leaving gay marriage up to the states. I also oppose gun control. I support the selective use of censorship to discourage material that promotes extreme inequality, moreover. I support incremental movement towards free trade. Wow! I'm on a roll here. Well, is that a centrist platform or not?
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Old 12-12-2005, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
disbelief that charity can take over completely for government without fundamental social change...
The change would have to come because many programs would indeed be gone.

Quote:
liberal rather than isolationist foreign policy tendencies (this may be the one that tips the scale)
Libertarians are not isolationist. We do believe that it's not our place to interfere in the affairs of other nations unless asked, however. And military action is perfectly acceptable if the threat is real.

Quote:
strong belief that we need equality of opportunity and that kids should not be held accountable for parent's poverty- and that we as a society have moral (not necessarily legal) obligation to aid people in redemption for past sins or mistakes if they volunteer for help and do some work to prove themselves...
As long as it's not "something for nothing" you would get plenty of Libertarians to agree with you.

Quote:
belief that there will always be some unemployed and they will need help
Private unemployment insurance?

Quote:
belief that society needs to focus some funding on science and research if the private sector cannot maintain it
It should be able to maintain it. Especially with lower taxes and less interference.

Quote:
and heavy belief in the importance of education for all...
No issue there.
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Old 12-12-2005, 02:01 PM
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Default I

appreciate the philosophical consistency of Libertarians but I just don't see that it makes practical sence. Some examples of government programs which would be eliminated by many Libertarians: most people who commit crimes are too poor to afford lawyers. If we, the people, do not provide them with representation, how can we make claim to a fair and just society??

If you and I live beside a river and you have a factory upstream of my property which dumps mercury into the water, what is my recourse? I can sue you, perhaps, but that will not restore my health.

Imagine if there was no government watchdog keeping an eye on banking and investmenting. After numerous corporate accounting and Wall Street scandals who would trust their money to the stock market??

Corporations do not really like to compete. Without anti-price fixing and anti-trust laws (with corresponding government power to enforce) there would be no free-markets, just monopolies.

Public Health: The free market would leave the nation totally unprepared for an Asian flu epidemic to name just one potential health disaster.

I am sure that government could be made smaller, though. Homeland Security is the kind of bureaucratic elephant, the country probably did not need and will be very hard to undo.
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