For those of you who talk about the secular intent of America’s founders, how do you explain things like the history of tax funded chaplains for both Houses of Congress? Keep in mind that since the late 1700s, all of these chaplains, with the exception of four Unitarians, have been Christians. Also remember that creating the chaplaincy position was of such importance to the first Senate that almost immediately after convening, the Senate formed a committee to nominate a chaplain.

It seems fairly clear that the impetus behind the First Amendment was to prevent the establishment in America of something akin to the C of E. The founding fathers simply did not want a Church of America that would be governed by the President. The notion that they rejected the important role of God in the daily affairs of men is absurd.

I think that it probably won’t be too long before a smart Christian lawyer realizes that by promoting secularism, the government is in effect establishing the religion of Atheistic Humanism. When that happens, the tide will turn against attempts by Atheists to stifle Judeo-Christian ethics in America.

Luke says:
Hi Raven
Raven says:
Hey Luke
Raven says:
you're looking particularily handsome today
Luke says:
I'd marry your cat just to get into your family
Raven says:
*swoons*
Luke says:
*Does muscely thingy with arms*
Raven says:
you don't have to marry my cat...
Luke says:
Really? But he is so darn cute!
Raven says:
*stabs cat out of jealousy*
Raven says:
Now you have to marry me!
Luke says:
Nooooo! Spook!
Luke says:
(that is my cats name)
Raven says:
Stop thinking of Spook! Think of me!
Raven says:
*jumps into Luke's arms*
Raven says:
((man, this is weeeeird...))
Luke says:
Am I dead, Angel? Cause this must be heaven!
Raven says:
*has no idea how to reply positivly to that particular remark*
Luke says:
Did it hurt?
Raven says:
no...
Luke says:
When you fell out of heaven?
Raven says:
Oh you... *blushes*
Luke says:
Do you have a map? I just keep on getting lost in your eyes.
Luke says:
Excuse me, but I think I dropped something!!! MY JAW!!
Raven says:
*notices that his jaw has fallen onto the ground* Oh God, you need medical attention!
Luke says:
No, I need you.
Raven says:

Raven says:
*turns bright red*
Luke says:
*Picks up and carries off into the sunset*
Raven says:

Raven says:
**3 years later**
Luke says:
YOU WHORE! I NEVER WANT TO SEE YOU AGAIN!
Raven says:
All I want is love
Luke says:
Well you cheated on me to get it!!
Raven says:
Only five times... today
Luke says:
You cut me deep raven...Real deep....
Raven says:
nooo, think of our children!
Luke says:
Have them! I don't want the brats!!
Raven says:
But they love you!
Raven says:
and so do I!
Luke says:
WELL I DONT LOVE THEM, AND THEY CA THAT YOU FOR THAT YOU-YOU-YOU *beep*!!!
Raven says:
(crying emote)
Luke says:
I sorry....
Raven says:
I don't mean to hurt you...
Luke says:
But you do!
Raven says:
I'll try to be a more faithful wife/girlfriend/whatever I am...
Luke says:
Rightio, back to the cheesey pick up lines hun.
Raven says:
(Smiley emote)
Raven says:
That's what I like about you most, your terrible terrible pick up lines
Luke says:
What's that in your eye? Must just be a twinkle.
Raven says:
*swoons*
Luke says:
You look like an angel. Welcome to Earth.
Raven says:
(Smiley emote)
Raven says:
*jumps on lap*
Luke says:
Where have you been all my life?
Raven says:
I don't know!
Luke says:
Was your father a thief? 'Cause someone stole the stars from the sky and put them in your eyes.
Raven says:
You know perfectly well that my father was framed!
Luke says:
Oh, don't worry hun you know I don't care
aven says:
(Smiley emote)
Luke says:
Hello. Cupid called. He says to tell you that he needs my heart back.
Raven says:
*collapses from over-swooning*
Luke says:
*Pick up dump children in an orphanage and goes into a sleesey motel*
Raven says:
(Shocked Emote)
Raven says:
*wakes up in sleazy motel*
Luke says:
*Is lying beside*
Raven says:
Eeeeeee!
Luke says:
what BABE!
Raven says:
Sorry, I'm just a little shocked, we haven't been to such a nice place since you first took me out
Raven says:
*watches roaches scuttle accross the floor*
Luke says:
I know, maybie next time I will take you to a dump!
Raven says:
(Smiley emote)
Raven says:
I've always wanted to go there
Luke says:
I know hun, thenn I can find us a hobo shack!
Raven says:
Are you sure that you can afford that on your salary? We have two children to look after as well...
Luke says:
I dumped them in an orphanage!
Raven says:
You did WHAT?
Luke says:
So we wouldn't have to pay for school, smart eh!
Raven says:
You're so thoughful sweetie
Luke says:
I know I am!
Raven says:
*hugs*
Luke says:
*Hugs back*
Raven says:
((has run out of dialogue...))
Luke says:
END!!

You need to come up with some new material, that response is getting kind of old.

I think I lost my train of thought.

__________________
That information is classified and to be given only on a need-to-know basis...

And I do not need to know.

That christian victimization stuff is getting real old real fast. Before you go on raving about how christian the founder were why don't actually read the constitution. It isn't only about the first ammendment that seperate church and state it also the article that said that no members of govt will be elect based a religous test or be of any church. Basically it states that it prevent govt officals from promoting one kind of religion in politics. Also their is no mention of God anywhere in the Constitution. Why should we promote one kind of relgion when their are so many others existing the US.

__________________
In the land of the blind, the man with one eye is the king
- Nas

As a Christian, I don't see any widespread attempt to persecute my faith. The First Amendment is very clear in the degree of church/state separation necessary and no major organization- not even the ACLU- has been trying to impose secularism on anyone.

__________________
"I am a Tory Anarchist. I should like every one to go about doing just as he pleased- short of altering any of the things to which I have grown accustomed." (Max Beerbohm)

Ah.. sanity...
Sorry, the loony distracted me. The political opinion thread is becoming saturated with loonies!

Note that four were Unitarians. Unitarians are a lot like me (supposedly I'm 100% compatible with them, though I've never been in one of their churches) in beliefs. Not Christians in the strictest sense, as you've noted.
I think the fear people have which may occasionally lead to what you see as an overextension of separation is built upon the fear that by pushing for government advocacy of religion, it will become a push for Christianity, not just against atheists but also Jews, Buddhists, and Unitarians.
This in spirit is what the founders also wanted to prevent. I'm no sure that they had as many religions to deal with but there were many sects and in those days the sects were possibly more hateful toward one another than people of other religious groups entirely today. Note that we are able to be civil with one another and even respectful. That would probably not be true if we were a Catholic and a Protestant back in those days. And a lot of that is due to increased tolerance which is partially helped by not giving special privelage to any one religion.
Secularism is no more atheistic than it is any other religion. It's purpose is to keep the majority from removing other groups' rights.
I don't believe that there is any major conscious effort to remove Judeo-Christian ethics. Those ethics dominate the beliefs of almost all Americans, including atheists and most who call themselves Satanists. They are part of our civil religion. Politicians are more likely to twist those ethics to their own means than try to destroy those ethics. And at any rate, secularism has not removed such ethics.
Realist politics does more to destroy ethics than tolerance. Tolerance is an ethic (allowing people to have their free will, showing mercy, lack of violent force). Realism causes us to worry about things like population control, war for resources and power, and other such issues. To some extent I think both sides of the secularism/religion debate get played into avoiding serious issues and coming to a truly moral consensus on how to handle very touchy and pressing problems. We share the same morality but it can be twisted in the world of politics.

__________________
That information is classified and to be given only on a need-to-know basis...

And I do not need to know.

. . . . .before we get going too far. . .please show me every occurance of the word "Judeo-Christian" in the Scriptures. . . .I have yet to have somene show me it existance once. . .are you going to be the first?. . .ah. . writing it in with a crayon won't count, either. . .

Yeah, Sam. Sham doesn't accept crayon, just stupid political cartoons from sites that aren't credible.

Condolences, Sam. Your thread has been taken over by loons.

__________________
That information is classified and to be given only on a need-to-know basis...

And I do not need to know.

If I am one of the voices of sanity here, this forum must really be crazy.

__________________
"I am a Tory Anarchist. I should like every one to go about doing just as he pleased- short of altering any of the things to which I have grown accustomed." (Max Beerbohm)