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  #231 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2010, 09:56 PM
Latherty Latherty is offline
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Originally Posted by Awryly View Post
It seems to me that where you get people in democratic countries having a really strong voice in decisions about war, you get more "moral" decisions. And I cannot think of an occasion in recent history when democratic countries went to war with one another.

Unfortunately, the US effectively excludes its people from these decisions in a variety of ways - propaganda (often deceitful), secrecy, alarmism..
Yes, the US has managed to be very adept at painting its adventures in moral colors; defending freedom etc.

I think American individuals are for the most part even more morally driven than, for instance, their European counterparts. But this almost radical moralism actually makes them more easy to exploit.

Once a path of "good" has been defined, anyone who strays from the path, including critics, are by definition evil.
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  #232 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2010, 09:59 PM
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Awryly Awryly is offline
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Originally Posted by Latherty View Post
Yes, the US has managed to be very adept at painting its adventures in moral colors; defending freedom etc.

I think American individuals are for the most part even more morally driven than, for instance, their European counterparts. But this almost radical moralism actually makes them more easy to exploit.

Once a path of "good" has been defined, anyone who strays from the path, including critics, are by definition evil.
And exploited they have been. Why is that?

Last edited by Awryly; 02-08-2010 at 10:00 PM.
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  #233 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2010, 11:46 PM
PeaceBeautyLove PeaceBeautyLove is offline
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Originally Posted by IgnoranceisBliss View Post
The U.S. just has a different outlook on the world. Its not propaganda or anything of the silly things you posted, its a difference in people. Americans were attacked on 9/11 and became stirred up. The U.S. has a history of aggressively persuing those that threaten it in anyway. Iraq may not have been tied to 9/11, but it was a "bad guy" in a time when the U.S. was stirred up and angry.
The enquires in the UK/Netherlands don't symbolize the differences in moral consciousness. They symbolize a different outlook on international affairs. Again with the big business. The whole "invade for oil" thing back fired so its moved on to a war to pay private corporations....
So you dont think that Bush team were planning an attack on Iraq ..long before 911..and long before they came into power? Oh dear, that is very gullible.
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  #234 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2010, 11:48 PM
PeaceBeautyLove PeaceBeautyLove is offline
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Originally Posted by IgnoranceisBliss View Post
Europeans vote to go to deploy troops? If another country bombed France would they have to wait a week to set up the polls and count the votes to decide whether to respond?

No "country" bombed the US. So what are you talking about?

Did the US bomb itself after the Oklahoma bombing?

Or did it try and find the terrorists responsible?
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  #235 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2010, 11:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Awryly View Post
Yes, very good post. But I would not be quite so gloomy. Nor would I say that morality has no place in controlling conflict.

It seems to me that where you get people in democratic countries having a really strong voice in decisions about war, you get more "moral" decisions. And I cannot think of an occasion in recent history when democratic countries went to war with one another.

Unfortunately, the US effectively excludes its people from these decisions in a variety of ways - propaganda (often deceitful), secrecy, alarmism. All for the purpose of expanding or protecting its power.

You only need to look at the Iraq War official enquires that have been going on in the Netherlands and the UK to appreciate the difference in moral consciousness between the people of those countries and the US.

The US has a long way to go. And until the influence of big business is replaced by fully democratic interests in driving foreign policy it will probably never happen.
I suspect we have both wasted our breath here, Illegal and Illegitimate.

This will teach me for being loquacious.
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  #236 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2010, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by PeaceBeautyLove View Post
No "country" bombed the US. So what are you talking about?

Did the US bomb itself after the Oklahoma bombing?

Or did it try and find the terrorists responsible?
good point. I keep seeing people say that Afghanistan attacked the uS. people apear to have forgotten what really happened.
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  #237 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2010, 11:51 PM
PeaceBeautyLove PeaceBeautyLove is offline
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Originally Posted by Latherty View Post
Yes, the US has managed to be very adept at painting its adventures in moral colors; defending freedom etc.

I think American individuals are for the most part even more morally driven than, for instance, their European counterparts. But this almost radical moralism actually makes them more easy to exploit.

Once a path of "good" has been defined, anyone who strays from the path, including critics, are by definition evil.

THe US public is easily manipulated... they use that moral compass of good and evil... like they are living in the middle ages. They can do this because the US has more uneducated, untravelled, insular people than any nation on earth.

They play the laughable PATRIOT card... if you are not with us..you are against us!!!

So anyone who opposes US cowardice and disgusting civilian bombing is suddenly unpatriotic
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  #238 (permalink)  
Old 02-09-2010, 04:53 AM
JonathanQuick JonathanQuick is offline
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Originally Posted by PeaceBeautyLove View Post
//

They play the laughable PATRIOT card... if you are not with us..you are against us!!!
/
Indeed, Hanoi Jane Fonda was a REAL "patriotic" American.

She flew to Hanoi, badmouthed America, and encouraged those loving communists.

Later, Hanoi John Kerry called all Vietnam Veterans "war criminals" and his treason moved General Giap to violate the Paris Peace Treaty and launch a final assault on South Vietnam, consigning tens of millions to communist hell in which they live today.

John Murtha, Ted Kennedy, Harry Reid, and many of your other "patriotic" pals badmouthed America and our troops shedding their blood in Afghanistan and Iraq, calling them murderers, and no different from Saddam Hussein.

Millions of Democrats don't deserve to call themselves "Americans."

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"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell
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Last edited by JonathanQuick; 02-09-2010 at 04:54 AM.
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  #239 (permalink)  
Old 02-09-2010, 05:36 AM
PeaceBeautyLove PeaceBeautyLove is offline
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Originally Posted by JonathanQuick View Post
Indeed, Hanoi Jane Fonda was a REAL "patriotic" American.

She flew to Hanoi, badmouthed America, and encouraged those loving communists.

Later, Hanoi John Kerry called all Vietnam Veterans "war criminals" and his treason moved General Giap to violate the Paris Peace Treaty and launch a final assault on South Vietnam, consigning tens of millions to communist hell in which they live today.

John Murtha, Ted Kennedy, Harry Reid, and many of your other "patriotic" pals badmouthed America and our troops shedding their blood in Afghanistan and Iraq, calling them murderers, and no different from Saddam Hussein.

Millions of Democrats don't deserve to call themselves "Americans."

"Pacifism is objectively pro-fascist. This is elementary common sense. If you hamper the war effort of one side you automatically help out that of the other." --George Orwell

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell


What a very weird, random and unconnected post.

Why didn't you advocate the random bombing of the US..after the Oklahoma attack?

btw...who is a pacifist? Anyone who opposed the PURE COWARDICE bombing of Iraq... was a pacifist?
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Last edited by PeaceBeautyLove; 02-09-2010 at 05:37 AM.
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  #240 (permalink)  
Old 02-09-2010, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by PeaceBeautyLove View Post
No "country" bombed the US. So what are you talking about?

Did the US bomb itself after the Oklahoma bombing?

Or did it try and find the terrorists responsible?
So funny that while you accuse americans of being brainwashed, uninformed, and untraveled...That you dismiss hundreds of facts. This one in particular, that iraq was a safe haven for terrorists.

Whos uninformed?
Whos brainwashed?
Perhaps your traveling is worthless when you do it with arrogance that makes you think by walking through a country you all of the sudden know all of its history and population's motives.
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