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Old 02-05-2010, 12:45 PM
frodo frodo is offline
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Default Is America Now Ungovernable?

I was at my city club for lunch yesterday since it was election day and I had proposed a new member. I was talking with my oldest friend, whose opinions I greatly value and whose business acumen has allowed him to accumulate a sizeable fortune. We started discussing current events and he made the comment "America is ungovernable". Then the soup arrived, and we turned the conversation to lighter things.

Now I reached the same conclusion - that America is ungovernable,some months ago, in fact when Obama first ran into brick walls on health reform and in other areas, but what surprised me was that my friend reached the same conclusion, and offered it without any prompting from me. Well that was about Eighteen hours ago, but it stuck in my mind. I've decided to try and set out my reasoning for you to read and to seek your comments.

Now this is a non trivial issue. For your friends around the world, Australia, Britain, Canada and Europe it means, if our Government comes to the same conclusion as I have, that we are going to have to take steps to try and insulate ourselves from the consequences of your actions, because some of them are going to be harmful, perhaps to us, perhaps to you, or both. It's that way because you are a big country with a big economy and you are the worlds only super power at present.

What appears to have happened is that enough Senators and Congressmen are now beholden to a corporate elite to frustrate any legislation that the elite does not like and to only facilitate legislation that will benefit that elite. The problem with that is that the interests of the elite are not the same as the interests of the average American, not by a long way. This is finally dawning on overseas commentators as they look on in horror at the mess that is healthcare reform. The asking of that rhetorical question: "How can people be persuaded to vote for something so obviously against their own interests?" is an indicator of our concern. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8474611.stm


Take your healthcare system. It is quite clear to anyone in Europe or Australia that your system is failing, distorting your economy and in need of reform - we have all had "The Public Option" for generations and it is obvious from a simple perusal of health data and GDP percentages that something is very very wrong. Yet what we have seen is a massive lobbying campaign from the "health industry" that appears set to derail meaningful reform. You can read the talking points used here: http://www.pnhp.org/news/2009/may/fr...ntzs_the_l.php

We are about to see an even bigger and more extreme lobbying campaign against any reform of the financial and banking systems. You can already read what the talking points are going to be here at the bottom of the page : http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_444332.html

Now this isn't about partisan politics where people are arguing about the best way to do something that will benefit all Americans. On one side we have people arguing about what is best for America, but the other side is arguing about what's best for their corporation. I saw this personally when we hired an American, Sol Trujillo, to run our largest, almost monopoly telecommunications company, Telstra. The Government put restrictions on it for that reason - to ensure it didn't gouge captive customers and provided a quality service throughout the country. Sol's sole imported American business strategy was to cajole, threaten and lobby Government to ease its restrictions. We were glad to see the last of him. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_Trujillo

Now it is apparent from the actions of the last decade that the elite and the corporations they control are winning. There was a time when an American free press acted as sufficient check on abuse of power, but those days are over. There is very little quality news journalism in America these days, what you get instead is "infotainment" for an increasingly poorly educated and dumbed down population that does not seem to know or care what is happening to it. Yet, when your President correctly identifies the need to spend more on education people demonstrates attitudes like this: Obama wants over 32% more money for the Education Industry! Most people only have access to the public education system, why not try and fix it?

Then of course what passes for fact in American media is more often than not cleverly disguised opinion from a paid corporate shill hiding in a think tank somewhere, like the Kagans, Krauthammers and Kristols. The net result is a poorly educated people surrounded by a sea of disinformation. Is it any wonder that attitudes such as "911 changes everything" can hold and take root? Is it any wonder that unconstitutional acts aren't even punished? Is this the Land of Washington? Nope.

What is worse, the skeleton of what America is going to look like in Five years time is rapidly becoming obvious to those who know where to look. In the military dimension, the legal and operational barriers between local law enforcement, military intelligence, military contractors and the military themselves have been deliberately blurred in the name of "counter terrorism". Do any of you understand the lethal effect on freedom and liberty of a seamless organisation extending from your local cop to the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Of Staff? Someone does:

Quote:
That proposition should be intrinsically understood by any American who completed sixth grade civics and was thus taught that a central prong of our political system is that government officials often abuse their power and/or err and therefore must prove accusations to be true (with tested evidence) before they're assumed to be true and the person punished accordingly. In particular, the fact that the U.S. Government, over and over, has falsely accused numerous people of being Terrorists -- only for it to turn out that they did nothing wrong -- by itself should compel a recognition of this truth. But it doesn't.
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/

There is another dimension though - the fusing and melding of lobbyists corporations and legislators has been taken to new heights, but what concerns me much more is that the concepts of "privatisation" - private sector replacing Government activity, for example in the prison system, is rearing it's ugly heads.

Let me tell you that without a watertight barrier between legislators and corporations - which you do not have at all, privatisation is simply another name for organised theft. You can see a very small example of it here: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/...n4895883.shtml
Of course that's just a little scandal involving a contractor and a corrupt judge, but what if your social security system is privatised??

The only threat the military industrial complex underestimated was the internet, but don't worry, that will soon be under control thanks to concerns about "cybersecurity". For example Google is going to be "helped" by the NSA to research a Chinese attack on its computers http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.ac...59174697244816 Do you understand that once Google and the NSA have a "working relationship' that it will be extended over time? Can you expect a SWAT team at your apartment in future if you Google a few words like "Hohlraum" and "Neutron cross section"? Perhaps.

It looks to me that the fusion of the Government and the military industrial complex is almost complete. The differences for example between private contractors from Blackwater and combat troops are looking smaller by the day. Lockheeds new F35 for example will be maintained by Lockheed contractors not airforce staff. It is going to get increasingly difficult to discern the differences between the Government of America and an armed corporation and be aware that corporations, unlike Governments of the people, for the people and by the people, have absolutely no morals or scruples whatsoever.

Last edited by frodo; 02-05-2010 at 12:47 PM.
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Old 02-05-2010, 03:06 PM
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So if I'm getting the gist of this, we're ungovernable because we can't push through legislation that half the country doesn't want?
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Old 02-05-2010, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by My Fing ID View Post
So if I'm getting the gist of this, we're ungovernable because we can't push through legislation that half the country doesn't want?
And holding up presidential appointments until a Republican Senator, Richard Shelby from Ala-dam-bama gets paid his pork. The way it's supposed to operate is give and take, finding common ground. If Republican Alpha wants A, B, and C... and Democrat Alpha wants D, E, and F... they get together and decide how each can get what they desire. The Republicans won't do that and obstruct everything presented. They want to play the game until they have the ball. When they don't, they refuse to play. So, what will happen is that Congress will likely change hands and the Democrats will do the same. It's back and forth B.S.

The Repubs need to act like a minority party. Work with the majority to do something. If the electorate doesn't like what the Democrats do, they'll be replaced. That's how it's supposed to work... well until 2009, anyway.
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Old 02-05-2010, 04:54 PM
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America is not ungovernable, it is n one of those interim periods when it is not clear which political trend will prevail...we have these now and again...The 60's with the transition from conservative America to the new left....the 70's when the failure of Carter heralded a decae and a half or far more conservative governance, and today when the left wants to drag the country way left. They may get success but the process is never easy. If they win we see a dozen years of leftist governance. If they lose, as now appears likely, they retreat to obscurity for those dozen years.
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Old 02-05-2010, 07:58 PM
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Until Americans realise that they are governed by big business, they will never be able to govern themselves.

Their political lethargy is a function of America's enormous economic power. Which allows them to be fed enough to keep them docile.

But the fact remains: they do not govern themselves.

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Old 02-05-2010, 09:49 PM
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An enlightened people, and an energetic public opinion... will control and enchain the aristocratic spirit of the government.

~Thomas Jefferson.

It's not the corporations that are standing in big government's way. It's we the people who are speaking up.

Corporations love big government. They loved healthcare reform as well, before the voters killed it.
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Old 02-05-2010, 10:15 PM
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Wait wait, one more comment on this abortion of logic.

Quote:
Then of course what passes for fact in American media is more often than not cleverly disguised opinion from a paid corporate shill hiding in a think tank somewhere, like the Kagans, Krauthammers and Kristols.
So let me get this straight. Pharma contributes 150 million to advertise healthcare reform. Pharma and insurance lobbies contributed hundreds of thousands to Coakley to defend healthcare reform.

Yet the opponents of healthcare reform are all 'cleverly disguised corporate shills'? Do you have any evidence of this at all or are you just blindly following the narative that the government is on the side of the people.
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Old 02-05-2010, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhffmn View Post
Wait wait, one more comment on this abortion of logic.



So let me get this straight. Pharma contributes 150 million to advertise healthcare reform. Pharma and insurance lobbies contributed hundreds of thousands to Coakley to defend healthcare reform.

Yet the opponents of healthcare reform are all 'cleverly disguised corporate shills'? Do you have any evidence of this at all or are you just blindly following the narative that the government is on the side of the people.
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Old 02-05-2010, 11:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhffmn View Post
Wait wait, one more comment on this abortion of logic.

So let me get this straight. Pharma contributes 150 million to advertise healthcare reform. Pharma and insurance lobbies contributed hundreds of thousands to Coakley to defend healthcare reform.

Yet the opponents of healthcare reform are all 'cleverly disguised corporate shills'? Do you have any evidence of this at all or are you just blindly following the narative that the government is on the side of the people.
Peanuts. The "cleverness", if you can call it that, is that they spend peanuts to make sure they lead the debate.

Which of course is about making them billions.

That's not hard, is it?

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Old 02-06-2010, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Awryly View Post
Peanuts. The "cleverness", if you can call it that, is that they spend peanuts to make sure they lead the debate.

Which of course is about making them billions.

That's not hard, is it?
Ok what are you even talking about? Who leads the debate? Krauthammer? Are you refering to pharma supporting Obamacare with millions in contributions?

I agree government and business are in bed with each other. It's the catch 22 of liberalism. The more government you ask for 'to help the needy' the more fascism (using Mussolini's definition) you get. Liberalism only works if enough altruistic rulers can be rounded up to run the state. The founders understood man was failable and designed a system that allowed for self governance limiting the ability of a corrupt few to rule many.

The end result of liberalism is a large and corrupt public sector parasite that enslaves the people.
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