What do you expect, we've spent the last 100 years talking about how great Europe is. Oooh, your shirt's from France, fancy!

Europe has been running the world for 700 years (though somehow many posters here have managed to shove all the wrongs committed by Europeans onto American shoulders) and as a result have a high opinion of themselves and still see us as backwater colonials in some respects.

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"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." - Conan of Cimmeria (applies to those on the internet as well)
My recent threads: Thought Experiment (your perfect government), Civil unions, and only civil unions, George Washington where art thou? (our first, greatest, and wisest president)

The idea of a "United States of Europe" is actually way older. Look to my signature: "Plus de frontières ! Le Rhin à tous ! Soyons la même République, soyons les États-Unis d’Europe, soyons la fédération continentale, soyons la liberté européenne, soyons la paix universelle!"

Quickly translated that would be something like "No more borders! The Rhine to everyone! We are the same Republic, let us be the United States of Europe, let us be a continental federation, let us be the European freedom, let us be the universal peace." signed Victor Hugo (1st of March 1871 in the French parliament).
I absolutely adore Victor Hugo - did you know that over 2 million people attended his funeral? Victor je t'aime!

My adoration for Victor Hugo put aside, the vision of a more united Europe is not new but what we should do with it, is.

Indeed, what goes around comes around. For years the Europeans have been dismissed for being "socialists", "unfree", "inefficient" and it was (and still is) even suggested that we were on the verge of collapse. Remeber back in the 1990's when almost every American opinionmaker was laughing with the European common currency - "It will fail in the next 5 years" ? So many years later it is the most powerful currency in the world.

I don't agree with your analysis though.
We're not writing off the United States, and we are certainly not saying f**k you - why should we? We just see you having all these severe problems - and we just have strong feelings what you guys should do about it. This is not a sign of hatred - it's a sign we care.

I think the American nation doens't know what is happening to her. She is facing competition East from her borders with China and India. She is facing competition West from her borders in the forms of the European Union. She is even facing competition in her own 'backyard' in the forms of emerging economies like Brazil - actually the whole continent of South America grouped together in the UNASUR (Union of South American Nations).
Well, I think she knows what is happening to her - it is just a complete new feeling for her. Hence, she is trying what is prooved to be the best manner to maintain power throughout history. Tell me what the added value of the re-deployment of the Fourth Fleet is? It was taken out of action shorlty after the end of WW2 - and it's installed back in power 2 years ago.

In her history the American nation only gained power, instead of turning in - like she is being forced now, not only by it's own failure on some fields but also by the succes of others. The first thing is something you can do about, the latter you can't - at least in a peaceful world.

Yes, Frogger, the US had problems in the past. And in the shadow of the 'American spirit' you have overcome all of them.
But none of the problems were such of a great magnitude like they are now.
And whilst the US may still be the most powerful nation on earth - other entities are knocking on the door who want to be let in. Not on a base of American leadership - but on a base of equality.

I'm not agrgueing a fatalistic fantasy that the "US will go down" - they will not, and I don't wish for that to happen (at all). But serious reforments need to be made.

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"No more borders! The Rhine to everyone! Let us be the same Republic, let us be the United States of Europe, let us be the continental federation, let us be the European freedom, let us be the universal peace!" - Victor Hugo, 1st of March 1871 in L'Assemblée Nationale

Ah! Yes, I understand your 'need' for being loved. Perhaps the Haitians love you this week.

well ! bring in the chickens Ma --the yanks are comin'


over paid
over sexed
over here

Don't you mean, 'Why 'are' European's so condescending?'

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Think logically. Think Socialism

Do not rise out of your class. Rise with your class!! - John McLeane

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"A successful man, is a man who has enough" unknown sherpa

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"A successful man, is a man who has enough" unknown sherpa

At first I did not want to mention Bush - 'cause I'm was (still am) little bit afraid that that arguement would be hijacked by some posters by saying "Now it's Bush fault, eh? Nice arguement - but not so original though." - kind of thing.

But I just read the banner article Clinton defends US policy engagement where Clinton states: "We had to change the mindset of not just leaders but of their populations,".

This is so true.

I still remember that at school everyone took a moment of silence after 9/11 - but I was at school so I don't know about what was happening outside, haha. Though, we did the same when the Iraqi-war broke out for the Iraqi-victims and later on with the 2004 trainbombings in Madrid.

Also, Bjorg, here in Belgium we had the same problem with the latest ambassodor apointed by Bush. He was was a redneck and he was appointed during Congress was in leaf - because they didn't want to approve him.
I had the oppurtunity to shook his hand when he gave a speech here at the university 2 years ago - he was quite a moron actually, very arrgogant.

Also, you need to know the following: "Almost immediately after his selection as the new US Ambassador to Belgium, Howard Gutman found himself thrown into the middle of a major international legal case, regarding the Bush-era US efforts to silence and possibly murder a political refugee from the US who is now an EU citizen in Belgium, Dr Les (Leslie) Sachs. With some irony, both Howard Gutman and Dr Les Sachs are graduates of Harvard University, both have Jewish heritage (with Sachs being non-Zionist), and both are veterans of the US Department of Justice. But now, despite all this in common, Howard Gutman will be representing the US in Belgium, as the US government itself faces criminal conviction in Belgium for seeking to have Sachs murdered and forcing him to become a refugee, for spreading lies and criminal libel about Sachs, and for illegally ordering Google and search engines to block the journalism of Sachs from search results. The pending criminal charges in Belgium including likely charges against US federal judges, a number of US lawyers, and also the right-wing author and political financier Patricia Cornwell, who has long been involved in spending very large sums to attack and destroy the political
refugee Sachs, even after Sachs was able to escape to Europe.

http://groups.google.com/group/misc....46cddc6bdd0e2d

But now, I want to introduce you to the new American ambassodor to Belgium. His name is Howard Gutman and he is talking Belgium BY A STORM through a huge media offensive. I happen to like him very much.

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"No more borders! The Rhine to everyone! Let us be the same Republic, let us be the United States of Europe, let us be the continental federation, let us be the European freedom, let us be the universal peace!" - Victor Hugo, 1st of March 1871 in L'Assemblée Nationale

I am happy that the United States of Europe seems to finally be becoming a reality. I can remember reading about it in a book written in the 1930s. This is a vision that is not new.
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Not new ! Europe was a united entity under the Roman Empire circa 79 AD

except for Ireland --they chickened out before the CELTIC IRISH