I stumbled upon the following article from the New York Times: Europe Feels Snubbed by Obama .

Some snippets:

"In addition to the palpable sense of insult among European officials, there is a growing concern that Europe is being taken for granted and losing importance in American eyes compared with the rise of a newly truculent China."

"American officials said that Mr. Obama felt that the previous major American-European summit meeting, last June in Prague, was a waste of time, and European Union officials said that the president even skipped a leaders’ lunch at the smaller European Union-United States meeting in Washington last November, sending Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. instead, something they said that President George W. Bush would never have done."

"Mr. Obama sees Europe as an important ally, but “Obama clearly has no emotional identification with Europe,” Mr. Grant said. “He has a cool, analytical view of allies and partners, but when the Europeans can’t provide much to help America solve global security problems, he doesn’t want to spend too much time on it."
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Anyhow, I'm just wondering what you guys think? Is the European Union, as an ally, taken for granted? I mean, look at what happened during the Copenhagen-summit in december. The Europeans were shoved aside - so President Obama could broker a rahter un-ambitious deal with the Chinese.
Look where it brought him: a Chinese attack on Google later and one diplomatic incident after the other involving an armsdeal with Taiwan to a meeting with the Dalai Lama.

I'm not scared for more Chinese, Indian, Brazilian, South African (...) influence in the world. But it can not be denied that the US and the EU are closely linked with each-other, may that be economically, politically or culturally. What does concern me is that the Obama administration is rather writing off the transatlantic relation to fast, at leats it seems that way to me.
The world has changed a lot the last few years - with the West handing in power, the US particularly, for the benefit of emerging countries.
It's not like the US can afford to loose the Europeans on every level.

Should the US pick her allies more carefully?! Or treat them with more respect or care more about the wishes of their allies?


Note: this is intended to be a serious thread, so if you want to, for example, discuss the differences between Rugby and American football, there is a nice "Off Topic" subsection for that - so I kindly want to ask to not go off-topic.

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"No more borders! The Rhine to everyone! Let us be the same Republic, let us be the United States of Europe, let us be the continental federation, let us be the European freedom, let us be the universal peace!" - Victor Hugo, 1st of March 1871 in L'Assemblée Nationale

These are the countries that will soon replace America.

Undoubtedly. But will the US be realistic enough to know it depends on others for its continued existence as a 1st World country.

And, quite separately, will Americans? The two are not the same.

And will they learn to come to terms with Chinese, European, Indian and Brazilian condescension? I think they can forget South Africa.

US has horribad diplomacy; I wouldn't expect it to get better.

Agree. (for once? lol)

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Since everyone seems to enjoy putting in all of these nice 'laws' in their signatures, here is a new one.

Erls' Theorem: With every new post on a PF topic, the odds of the terms 'racist' and 'socialist' being used geometrically increase.

Is the European Union, as an ally, taken for granted?

Yep...without a doubt. Can you tell me the last time the EU told the US to get to hell because they are talking crap? Why would the EU not be taken for granted? Have they ever given they impression they could not be?

Tbh...I'd really rather like the EU, and especially the UK, to climb out of the USA's back pocket. If the USA gets other bum-chums and that acquisition releases us from this conviction we have that the USA actually gives a toss about any country bar the USA.....and will allow us to do what we need to do for ourselves........then I'd be thrilled.

All countries should do what is best for their own populations....and come to an equitable compromise in negotiations with other countries where there is conflict in that best outcome. The US appears, to me, to still be in the "I have a bigger stick than you" mindset......and I'd be chuffed to see the country with as big a stick putting them in their place..in no uncertain terms.

I have never been an EU fan..neither as a UK citizen.....or if Scotland ever gets independence........but I have to say that if the EU ever got the guts to tell the USA they do not have the same importance in the world as they have in their own mind....I'd become an EU enthusiast!

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Where am I going......and what am I doing in this handbasket?
Cowardice asks the question, 'Is it safe?' Expediency asks the question, 'Is it politic?' But conscience asks the question, 'Is it right?' And there comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular but because conscience tells one it is right. Martin Luther King Jr.
"BE NICE TO AMERICA OR WE'LL BRING DEMOCRACY TO YOUR COUNTRY"....a US bumper-sticker warning!

The U.S., like many other countries, chooses Allies based on serving its own self interests.

Unfortunately, this entraps the U.S. when the situations are not black and white.

Take for instance Saudi Arabia. The U.S. supports Saudi Arabia and imports millions of barrels of oil from there and supports the country politically....yet Saudi Arabia is probably the largest state sponsor of the same groups the U.S. defines as 'terrorists' and our enemies.

I think the issue with choosing allies is that we do not always know what our 'best' self-interest is at the time.

If the U.S. was not beholden to so much Middle East and South American oil, it could put much more pressure on the corrupt and oppressive governments (Kuwait, Venezuela, Brazil) that are largely the reasons why those places are still considered (or seen as) 3rd world.

But hey....maybe that's precisely why the U.S. does not mind supporting such countries.

People feel it is the American self interest to keep itself ahead of the game...rather than seeing other countries progress to our heights.

At the same time.....those countries would just as easily export oil or other resources elsewhere...so why not to us?

And the country's need the money....there just needs to be a better way to pressure countries without them knowing they actually own us through contracts and our oil dependency.

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Who has controlled the Middle East over the course of history?
Myths And Facts of the Israeli-Arab Conflict
Legal Precedent for the Jewish National Home a.k.a. Israel
How Arab Countries Treat Palestinians and Perpetuate the Refugee Problem <-- no longer need google-doc to view! Just zoom in!

Don't you just love the irony. America fighting against itself.

The US should stick to it's constitution and stop making wartime alliances during peace.

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"Me only have one ambition, y'know. I only have one thing I really like to see happen. I like to see mankind live together - black, white, Chinese, everyone - that's all." -Bob Marley

"Russians are superior to americans so give us a break." -anonymous poster

"More Russians speak Russian, than americans speak american" -anonymous poster

You're right - but this is not about war- or peacetime.
It's about brushing off the Europeans - the most thrustworthy (in some sense) ally they've ever had in their history as an independent nation. And somehow they look eager to trade it with a Chinese counterpart in this case.

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"No more borders! The Rhine to everyone! Let us be the same Republic, let us be the United States of Europe, let us be the continental federation, let us be the European freedom, let us be the universal peace!" - Victor Hugo, 1st of March 1871 in L'Assemblée Nationale

Our allies will be shuffled in 15 years anyway so it's not like it matters.