I always end up offending someone. I try hard to fight on the side of anyone I think is oppressed, but I always end up making someone angry at me. If I support feminism, I offend women who work at home. If I opposed it, I would offend feminists. If I claim that only women have a right to express opinions on these subjects, I am ridiculed and accused of being hypocritical or indecisive. If I take a feminist stance, some people claim that I am being patronizing and implying that women can't take care of themselves. I'm really just trying to be one more person standing up for what is right. On the other hand, at least one woman complimented me for my ideas, so I think that some would think less of me if I did not take such a stance. I am trapped like this on every issue regarding feminism. Moreover, I daresay that this post is annoying to some who think that I should be more self-reliant. But if I don't get some answers I'll just keep offending people. What should I write? Please tell me what to write. Thank you very much.

__________________
"I am a Tory Anarchist. I should like every one to go about doing just as he pleased- short of altering any of the things to which I have grown accustomed." (Max Beerbohm)

You have just got to stop worrying about offending people just by having an opinion.

__________________
Order without liberty and liberty without order are equally destructive. - Theodore Roosevelt

__________________
"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left."
Ecclesiastes 10:2 (NIV)

I thank Senax and The12thMan. Obviously, I won't try to offend anyone, but from now on I will give my honest opinion regardless of who agrees with it. I consider this thread finished. Thanks again.

__________________
"I am a Tory Anarchist. I should like every one to go about doing just as he pleased- short of altering any of the things to which I have grown accustomed." (Max Beerbohm)

Angry people will snap at you regardless of what you say.
What are you trying to accomplish by talking to these people?


I am reminded of the proverbial old man with a stick. He will beat me over the head no matter what I say.

Let’s look at my options. Like reaching into a fire, enduring a beating might be acceptable as long as it is short. Dodging would work if I were as nimble as can be, but I can still come out scathed and exhausted. If I succeed in disarming him, he could become bitter with pride, and ditch me. Leaving empty-handed may be a failure, but leaving empty handed and unscathed is better than leaving empty-handed and in pieces.

Force, your problem is that you view feminism as an issue of equality and not as an issue of liberty. Feminism has nothing to do with equality. Its all about freedom.


The point of feminism is this:

1) Women are fully capable of making their own decisions about what to do with their lives.

2) No one has a right to tell what a woman what she can or cannot do with her life based on her sex.

Whether she wants to be a housewife, a science professional, an entertainer, an athlete, a congresswoman, a porn star, a mechanic, a teacher, a soldier, or anything else she might want to be, she has the right to do any of these things without shame.

...

The question of whether women and men are "Equal" is wholely irrelevent to the discussion, although I think its fairly obvious that women and men are very different creatures. No one is equal, All people are different, and all people should be treated individually and not on the basis of sex/race etc. Let us not confuse basic principles of liberty-- Equality of opportunity, and equality under the law, both basic principles of liberty-- with the rediculous postulate that "All people are equal"

Also irrelevent is the question of averages; irrelevent are study's suggesting, for example, that women are worse at science/engineering tasks, because there are plenty of women who excell at both science and engineering and there is no reason why these women shouldn't become scientists and engineers.

...

Force, what is particularly annoying are your rants on the immorality of pornography as, if i understand correctly, treating women unequally. You are the only one i've ever heard of who opposes pornography from the left rather than from the right. You have no right to tell women what they can or cannot do, nor do you have a right to censor artistic expression that you find offensive. If you don't like pornography, don't look at it ( i don't ). Also irrelevent is the fact that more women are depicted in pornography than men, this has to do with economics and demand, and doesn't diminish the freedom of people to do whatever they want between consenting adults, as long as no one is harmed in the process.

__________________
"The belief that nothing exists outside your own mind--surely there must be some way of demonstrating that it was false" - 1984

I posted the above for lack of a better place to post it...

I do agree with senax and 12th though, your opinions are your own, force, and i respect your opinions.

But if you don't want to see them attacked, you shouldn't post them on a political debate forum

....

The reply i made above was kindof the boiling point of all those minor feminism related hijacks in other threads.

__________________
"The belief that nothing exists outside your own mind--surely there must be some way of demonstrating that it was false" - 1984

The one thing i've never understood is the bias accusations with regards to wage gaps and inequality in the workplace.. essentially, feminist claims are entirely contradictory to basic business principles and common sense...

If we are to assume that men ARE in fact looking to hold onto their power in society AND drive profits, then why would they hire more men? Why not just hire more women? You could hire them for less then what you could hire a man for and therefore turn more profit by keeping workforce costs low.

IN addition, most Dept. of Labor statistics CRUSH feminist assumptions that women are not on equal pay scales as men. In fact, when it comes to non married men and women, women make 106% of what men make. Black females actually make the most out of any race demographic upon entry into the workforce. They make roughly $41,000 a year. Second are white women with $37,000.

Also, the gap in women and men in the workforce in terms of salary is less than 2% which is statistically insignificant given the margin of potential error. So where is this wage gap and the glass ceiling?

While I don't question sexual harrassment claims and whatnot, I struggle to find any basis to which feminists can rest their case on...