Of course it does. I was being sarcastic (I got the impression you thought I was serious, but it's tough to tell!)

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Where are we going? And why am I in this handbasket?

I didn't say that they couldn't provide a better learning environment??? I said;

Most of the kids there are there with strong parental control and they do not have the disadvantage of accepting everyone!!!

SS;
But would they???

You have an interesting concept of what taxes are??? You do realize that most of the taxes gathered for the purpose of public education, are from people without school age children??? What would be the purpose of collecting taxes only to see to it that certain people get their money back??? Kinda defeats the whole purpose doesn't it???

Sure they can they just have to be able to pay for it??? Same as a poor person??? The point is that majority of people with school age children, rarely pay $25,000 annually in taxes, the majority are lucky to make that much annually!

If the public schools are abandoned, by those who can now pay the extra to send their kids to private schools, the poor will only have the option of staying in a system that has less money, and a larger percentage of problem children to contend with!!! If they cannot go to better public school then what is the point, of having a voucher system???

Less students=less money=poorer facilities=worse teachers=poor learning environment!!! This won't help poor kids get a better education, it assures they will be right back where we started??

Yes, bad rich, bad rich!!! I just don't see the benefit of a blanket voucher system. The original idea was to help underprivileged kids that have shown academic excellence, and deserve to be allowed to attend a school with a better environment, than the juvenile prisons our politicians have the audacity to call schools!!!

No that's why our schools are a failure to the people who depend on them???

Uhhh, NO!!!

If you can afford it, yes if not then there is no choice other than public!

If public schools are really better, you have nothing to worry about. No one has suggested vouchers should be mandatory. Stay in public school if you want.

Never said they were better, and for most it will be their only choice, voucher or not!! If they would fix them, we wouldn't need vouchers.

SS give me until tomorrow, I want to read more on the Colorado proposal!!

Buck S. N.

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There are only two things wrong with this great nation of ours, democrats and republicans!

Not necessarily in that order.

Maybe. maybe not. Why not give them the option?

If the public system is really more desirable, you have nothing to lose. They'll stay with it. Right?

Yep. What does this have to do with anything?

So let me get this straight...if childess people cant get their taxes back, then NO ONE should be able to get their taxes back? Is that your logic?

The purpose of the taxes are to provide children in that area with education. Not to keep government workers employed.

Wrong. They have no option to refuse to use it. They are forced to pay for it either way. Even if they dont want to use it, they still have to pay for it. You really believe that is fair?

So the wealthy pay more than their share of taxes for education, even though they do not use the public school system. Thanks for supporting my argument.

Which is irrelevant, since that system is also now supporting fewer students. Fewer students = fewer costs.

To offer Parents a choice. Not everyone believes public schools are better than private, and vice versa. Why does it have to be "either/or" with you?

um...why?

Fewer students = fewer costs = less funding needed.

The facilities will not be "poorer" if they also have reduced costs due to a drop in their student population. That seems like common sense to me.

Um...no. Poor students can use the vouchers at any school they want. If they stay in public school, there are fewer students. It is a wash. Nothing really changes.

huh? Where did the "academic excellence" come in? That is not the purpose of vouchers. Even retarded kids can use them. The purpose of vouchers is to provide options for ALL students, not just the good ones.

No, vouchers were never indended as a "reward system" for good students. I have no idea where you got that from. heh heh

Then why not let Parents have the option of using vouchers?

Everyone can afford it. That is the beauty of the system. People in poor areas of the city get the exact same amount as people in the rich areas.

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http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oid=1381

http://www.policymattersohio.org/pdf/ClevelandVouchers.pdf#search='policy%20matters%20s chool%20vouchers%20wh


I S.S., you asked why I believe that the public schools need to be relieved of the yoke of " NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND'. I know a lot of (public school) teachers who would like to spend their time teaching instead of wasting valuable time and energy making their lessons plans comply with federal regulation, going to meetings about the federal regulations ; then worrying how the kids will test every few years. School systems have become completely neurotic about children's reading ability and make this a priority at very young ages. Far too many kids are being given drugs to make them less active and better able to concentrate. Too many kids dislike learning by the time they are 10. The best argument I can think of in favor of vouchers is that not all kids have the same learning styles and some do better in a Montesouri or Waldorf school setting. However, I think that public schools have been forced into this straight jacket and I know many teachers who could do better given the freedom that is allowed in those alternative schools.

yet have not acknowledged the fact that student performance has deteriorated long long LONG before that act was event passed. So what was the excuse then?

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All you need to know about the energy crisis:
ANWR Exploration Republicans: 91% Supported. Democrats: 86% Opposed.
Coal-to-liquid R's: 90% YES. D's: 78% NO.
Oil Shale Exploration R's: 90% YES. D's: 86% NO.
Outer Continental Shelf Exploration R's: 81% YES. D's: 83% NO.
Increased Refinery Capacity R's: 97% YES. D's: 96% NO

SUMMARY: 91% of House Republicans have historically voted to increase the production of America’s own oil and gas. 86% of House Democrats have historically voted against.

Maybe they should apply for jobs at private schools, that are free of such restrictions.

You are preaching to the choir here. I am for fewer government restrictions all around.

Maybe. That has nothing to do with the public education system though. That is under Social Services.

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The voucher program has basically two types of vouchers being proposed, a charity voucher or an educational voucher.

The charity voucher is best described by the guy who first suggested the voucher program back in 1955, Nobel Prize–winning economist Milton Friedman kick-started modern education reform with an article titled “The Role of Government in Education.” You'll like the article, SS!!

http://www.reason.com/0512/fe.ng.the.shtml

Some of these charity vouchers have academic requirements (now being used in 5 different states) on them and Illinois I think it is wants to propose vouchers for students who are failing in low income districts. I would be more inclined to provide vouchers for those who prove they want an education???

The educational vouchers, like you and others advocate, are available to everyone, and this check or piece of paper can be used anywhere. If this would have, or could have been implemented in 1955, it may have had the competitive market, that in theory, could have improved all educational facilities, and we most likely wouldn’t be in the situation we find ourselves in now!

Today, I tend to agree with these folks on the points listed below;

http://www.adl.org/vouchers/vouchers_main.asp

I am also concerned about the abuses of the system! What happens when that low income welfare mother with 5 kids makes it through the required college hours to start her own school in her own home with her 5 children as students? Are you willing to give her $2500-$5000 per child a month in her private school? What about other questionable organizations like Arian brotherhoods, KKK, organized crime, or gang bangers find a way to utilize this free money??? I know a Mormon family with 15 kids should they be paid, $75,000 monthly for their brood??? Why not, that is what it is for???

I'm also not convinced that the price of private schools would decrease? As long as that is what the government offers that will be the minimum, just like hospitals they would get as much out of the government as they can possibly get. Then the schools will add to the cost to eliminate undesirables, getting around any discrimination laws???

Rebellion, before the "no child left behind" program, we had a "pass them and get them out of our hair" program, and one is just as bad as the other in tit's implementation, both are mainly concerned about how much money they get for their efforts rather than providing a marketable item! Another educated productive member of society!!!

Buck S. N.

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There are only two things wrong with this great nation of ours, democrats and republicans!

Not necessarily in that order.

The government could still impose minimum requirements on private schools. Just like they do right now.

You already have the option of home schooling your children as well. How would your scenerio be different?

Same thing as existing private schools.

The state would no longer be able to dictate other content...but that is the whole point. That state's concern should be the advancement of the child's education, not indoctrination into the state's pet ideology.

Maybe...the state is already spending $75,000 on their brood anyway. Right?

Vouchers are proportional. It is a per-child credit. That money would be spent either way. The only question is should it be spent by the parent or by the state?

It has to. because if it doesnt, they wont be able to compete with the public system. Nothing will change if you are correct. You have nothing to lose in that respect.

If they are recieveing state money, they will be bound by discrimination laws.

Existing private schools are not bound by discrimination laws because they do not currently receive state money.

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Congratulations, you just started a whole new industry, making babies for fun and profit!!! Got a college degree, some sperm and an unfertilized egg laying around??? It’s fun and the more you make, the more you make!! Wink, wink!!!

Oh boy that's gonna work!!!

No they are already home schooled by a qualified training instructor!!! Under your ideal though they just got rich, because they are a baby factory!!! Huh, huh!!

Admit it SS, you just heard citizens deciding where their tax money is spent, and the rest is irrelevant???

If I'm correct, nothing will be accomplished the way it was intended too!!! Public schools will become a thing of the past and franchises, and home businesses, will pop up like McDonalds across the nation, and the smaller communities that already have a strong educational program, and low income districts (as usual) will be the ones that suffer!!!

Raising prices would be legal and it would stop most of the ones it is specifically designed to help from having the benefits, so what are we really accomplishing??? Oh yea, access for a certain few to take advantage of free money through the government???

Buck S. N.

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There are only two things wrong with this great nation of ours, democrats and republicans!

Not necessarily in that order.

Vouchers would work if they were introduced in conjunction with social services related to education for poor families. Without such help, it would merely mean that kids not prepared for schooling would ruin the scores for good schools and the better schools would raise their prices to avoid that. Thus we'd eventually wind up with possibly slight improvement for the poor kids, but not much. That's why it is important to make sure parents are doing their part in education and those that can't receive some help in doing so.

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"It's never over... BOY!"
The Tall Man, Phantasm III