How is it for profit if you have to pay taxes anyway? As long as the children are getting educated, why does it matter if parents or public schools get the money to do it?

It already works that way now. The money is already being spent.

So how would vouchers be any different? You'd still have to be qualified to receive state funds. So whats the difference?

Rich except for that minor inconvenience of having to care and raise all those children. And having to be qualified to be able to home school.

But as long as the children are getting the same education for the same cost, why does it matter?

When did I say their opinions were irrelevant?

I dont know the details of their program. Maybe they had good reason to shoot it down. As I just explained, the proposals are all different depending on the area. The one I am explaining is the most recent one proposed for Colorado.

It cant happen if Public schools are better. Right?

Vouchers are voluntary. There wont be an exodus unless there is a reason for an exodus.

Raising prices for what? I dont understand what that is supposed to mean.

How is it a "certain few" if everyone has access to the same amount of money? That makes no sense.

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I have quite a few thoughts about how public schools might improve... Nonetheless, there is something about arguing with people who have already made up their minds and place blame entirely on the public school system for poor student performance - well, it brings out the contrarian in me. Kids have been doing and are doing poorly in places where families and communities are functioning poorly. And public schools are being asked to be parents, social workers and teachers - They are shackeled with mandated layers of bureaucracy then vilified and described as "inefficient" when they fail to do it all.

entirely on poor schools? No one that I saw. The argument is simply that better schools certainly can't hurt the situation (it's kind of hard to make parents care, after all) and that vouchers would bring competition into the system, thereby improving it.

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Where are we going? And why am I in this handbasket?

I actually debated one of my friends the other day on this subject.

He lives in an upper middle class neighborhood. He opposes vouchers. His logic is that most people in his county already use private schools. So if vouchers were allowed, it would mean a net drop in school funding for existing students in the private system (same number of students, less funding due to vouchers taking money out of the system).

I pointed out how this was unfair to those people; they are tax payers too, why shouldnt they be able to get their tax money back if they are not using public services anyway? "Tough shіt. Screw em. My kids come first" was his basic answer.

Which I can actually respect. He didnt try the "Schools are social services" cop out. He just admitted he was exploiting them (the wealthy) and that he didnt care. He is honest if nothing else.

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Well you apparently have your mind made up and that is different how? Nevertheless, when an issue has been thoroughly examined someone SHOULD make their mind up on it. Why waffle when you are convinced of the answer? Secondly, if you had read all of my posts then you would know that I blamed parents as well and addressed why vouchers address that problem. Schools failed long before the "bureaucracy" was put in place. Really, that is an excuse, time to move on.

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JMS gets another English lesson:

Quote:

there is no "mostly unique;" thats like saying "sometimes always," its an oxymoron - its either one or the other.

The result:

Quote:

By the mid-19th century unique had developed a wider meaning, “not typical, unusual,” and it is in this wider sense that it is compared. The comparison of so-called absolutes in senses that are not absolute is standard in all varieties of speech and writing.

no matter how much we want it to be so, one size does not fit all when it comes to educating children of varying degrees of capability. 'no child left behind' is another way of saying the slowest child sets the pace. if you are preparing our youth to enter a competitive world environment then 'no child left behind' self inflicts on our country a disadvantage which may never be overcome.
no question the public school system, by and large, was a mess and remains one. the point to be made however, is that 'no child left behind' is not the answer to those problems. ask a public school teacher.

Does this about cover what you want, SS??? If not can you give a link?

Cause you keep saying “everyone” gets the vouchers, and no voucher system that has been accepted so far is that broad ranged???

Here’s an idea, FIX THE #@*%ing PROBLEM!!!

The tax game is what started the demise of public education, in the first place!! I went to a school (early 70’s) that was one of the richest school’s in town!! We were also the most, well funded. Our auto shop was a $3 million dollar facility with 12 work bays, two paint rooms, and 3 lifts, the comparable school on the south-side had a 20x20 metal shed with a dirt floor. The class room education was most likely not much of a difference, but the hands on instruction was far superior at our school. The funny part is that our school put out very few mechanics after graduation! Wouldn’t it make more sense to provide this type of education to the students that are statistically, more likely to become mechanics??? If anything the poorer schools should have the best elective training, because most of them will find themselves earning a living using their hands!!!

If education is the states responsibility then each school should be funded equally, to be effective!! All logic and evidence says that poorly funded public schools are producing the highest majority of poorly educated students??? Is this not logical enough for you? Sure the parents in those areas are part of the problem, they give their children the attitudes that almost always cause them to fail as social beings!! Why can’t those parents instill into their children the importance of an education, and make sure they understand that good study habits can be beneficial for them in the future. Because, in most cases they never learned these things themselves, in the low income public school environments they grew up in!!!

I only want to say that this should not be a tax issue. Unless it has something to do with reducing them!! Taxes are taken from every eligible citizen, and are supposed to be used for all societal needs. The public school system is perfect example of bureaucracy gone wild! It is in dire need of a down sizing, house cleaning, and the removal of un-necessary, overpaid executives (much like most corporate entities), who have unnecessary expence accounts, furnish their offices extravagantly, and misappropriate funds for everything under the sun, except educating the students. There are areas that say they spend thousands of dollars on each student (counting the Italian black marble on the floor of some administrators office), yet teachers must fill the void by buying things like paper, so they can get their lesson plan together!?!

The government collects taxes, then it is their responsibility to see to it that the money is not wasted, misused, or extorted (tax breaks, loopholes, and deductions). Once they have figured out the most effective manner in facilitating their citizenry with these programs, pay all the bills, and provide an acceptable military to protect our shores, then and only then should anyone be concerned about getting money back, or more to the point adjusting the percentages so that “ALL” taxpayers would pay less!! What a concept!?! Giving all citizens with children, or because they are already doing well, makes absolutely no sense!!! A loophole or tax break, only means that those funds will have to be covered, from somewhere else??

You sure you are a conservative/republican??? Create a surplus then by all means stop taking so much in the first place!! We can start with the congressional retirement slush fund, and their exclusive health care program! Isn't that what is killing GM and Ford???

Currently our children are learning how to pass "a" test, created by the government? Children across the country sit in classrooms spending hours as their teachers show them how to mark the test answer sheet properly??? Shouldn’t they be teaching them how to learn? You don’t have to know everything, but it sure helps to have the necessary tools, to look it up!!!

Buck S. N.

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There are only two things wrong with this great nation of ours, democrats and republicans!

Not necessarily in that order.