The Crusades were one of the worst horrors in the history of Christian (so-called) civilization. The Crusaders, being Catholic, murdered Jews and Orthodox Christians as well as Muslims:

On the Friday (15 July) very early in the morning, we launched a general assault on the city without being able to harm it, and we were stupefied and struck with great fear. Then when the hour approached at which Our Lord Jesus Christ consented to suffer for us the torment of the cross, our knights posted on the siege engine fought fiercely among others Duke Godfrey and Count Eustace his brother. At that moment one of our knights, called Lietaud, scaled the wall of the city. As soon as he reached the top all the defenders of the city fled from the walls across the city. Our men pursued them and smitting them with their swords, as far as the temple of Solomon where there was such carnage that our men walked in blood up to their ankles...
Having broken through the pagans, our soldiers seized a large number of men and women in the temple, and they killed them or spared them depending on what seemed good to them. A large group of pagans of both sexes to whom Tancred and Gaston of Bearn had given their banners as safe conduct had taken refuge on top of the temple of Solomon. The crusaders soon ran through the city, seizing gold, silver, horses, and mules, and pillaging the houses, which were bulging with riches. Then, happy and weeping for joy, our men went to adore the sepulchre of our Savior Jesus and paid their debt to him (their vow to go on crusade). The next morning, our men climbed on to the roof of the temple, attacked the Saracens, men and women and, having drawn sword, beheaded them. Some threw themselves down from the temple. When he saw this, Tancred was filled with indignation

Anonymous History of the First Crusade, written by a knight who took part in the crusade.

http://frterry.org/History/Chapter_9...andout_117.htm

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"I am a Tory Anarchist. I should like every one to go about doing just as he pleased- short of altering any of the things to which I have grown accustomed." (Max Beerbohm)

yupper.. you've got to wonder about people who claim "god is with us" when they go to war.

http://www.politicalforum.com/downlo...03c26ff334ee79
"Gott Mit Uns" belt buckle worn by german soldiers during ww1 and 2.



Bigf'in deal.. I got mittens too.

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"When I'm in command, every mission is a suicide mission!" -Capt. Zapp Branigan
The United Church of the Latter Day Tangential Tarts

yeah, it may have been a horrifying bloodbath and a dark time in christian history, but it helped push europe out of the dark ages. it funny how immoral deeds sometimes produce positive results- unintentionally of course.

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LET ME SEE YOUR WAR FACE!!!

That reminds me of a Bible verse:

But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive. (Genesis 50:20)

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"I am a Tory Anarchist. I should like every one to go about doing just as he pleased- short of altering any of the things to which I have grown accustomed." (Max Beerbohm)

Yeah too bad they didn't kill all the evangelicals. . .we still have to deal with that literalist cult even today. . .aka the "God's Choesn" people cult. . . .I wonder when their next failed rapture will take place?

While Calvin and Luther understood the word “Israel” in Romans 11:25 to refer to the church of Jewish and Gentile believers, as had the Roman Catholic Church, Theodore Beza and Martin Bucer preferred to apply the word to unbelieving Jews and Judaism. The various editors of the Geneva Bible, influenced both by Calvin and Beza, increasingly favoured this interpretation. In the 1557 and 1560 editions, a short note on Romans 11 defined 'Israel' as the 'nation of the Jews'. In later editions, this was amplified to suggest a future conversion of the whole nation of the Jews, though not everyone particularly, shall be joined to the church of Christ.'(4) Through the notes accompanying this translation, which became the most widely read translation in England and Scotland prior to the Authorized Version of 1611, together with the writings of Puritans such as William Perkins and Hugh Broughton, the idea of the conversion of the Jewish people spread in Britain and the American Colonies. (5)

Stephen Sizer, “Christian Zionism: Road-map to Armageddon?” (Leicester: 2004), Page 27-28.

It is clear that Jesus was often misunderstood by those who took his words too literally. John's Gospel contains several instances. For example after he had cleansed the temple and was asked by the Pharisees for a sign, Jesus replied, 'Destroy this temple and I will raise it again in three days' (John 2:19). They thought he meant their temple, but Jesus does not correct their error. In the next few chapters, Nicodemus wonders how he can enter his mother's womb again (John 3:4), the Samaritan woman believes Jesus is offering her water on tap (4:15), and the religious leaders fear Jesus is advocating cannibalism by insisting they must eat his body and drink his blood (6:51-52). It is ironic therefore, that one of the most common mistakes made by people in the Gospels, who erroneously deduced a literal interpretation when Jesus intended a spiritual one is repeated today.

Stephen Sizer, “Christian Zionism: Road-map to Armageddon?” (Leicester: 2004), Page 123.

Shamgar, we are trying to discuss the crusades here, okay?? would you please stay on topic?

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LET ME SEE YOUR WAR FACE!!!

By the way, Shamgar, I'm not offended by anything you write about me, but just so you know who you're dealing with, I'm not a Scriptural Literalist or a follower of Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell. I attacked Robertson more than once on this site when I thought his statements were cruel or outlandish.

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"I am a Tory Anarchist. I should like every one to go about doing just as he pleased- short of altering any of the things to which I have grown accustomed." (Max Beerbohm)

hahahahahaha of ocurse you are part of the literalist cult. . . . . you claim antichrists are "God' Chosen"people. . .for you "Israel = antichrists". . . .you literalist cult

Romans 11: 25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Well if you knew anything about the Scriptures, which you don't, you would see my post has everything to do with the crusades. . . since whose idea were the crusades. . ..the catholics. . .and the catholics didn;t consider the antichrists. . ."God's Chosen" people. . .and neither did Martin Luther. . .get a clue for a change. . .wait! that was silly on my part. . . .

Let's just say that I think Jews are God's chosen people in that they always play an important positive role in history. Moreover, Jesus chose to be one. No other group has been so persecuted for righteousness' sake. I would add that I support Palestinian independence in theory, but not in practice as the situation stands. I was very angry, therefore, when Robertson claimed that Sharon's stroke was God's judgment. I would describe anyone who follows Pat Robertson as following a cult, but I don't follow him and never have.

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"I am a Tory Anarchist. I should like every one to go about doing just as he pleased- short of altering any of the things to which I have grown accustomed." (Max Beerbohm)

The problem with internet discussion boards is you can't calmly stand up, walk up to someone, and give a nice hard b!tchslap clear across the face, then turn around, and walk calmly back to your seat when they say something really really dumb. ::shrug::

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LET ME SEE YOUR WAR FACE!!!