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Old 02-02-2006, 04:37 AM
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Cuba has free health-care & superior education compared to America/
Free health care is not necessarily good health care. How many sick people fly to Cuba for treatment? How many fly here? Exactly.

And do you have a link showing how the educational system is "superior"?

I've been there. It does not work. The people are dirt poor, there is little infrastructure and there are shortages of nearly everything, including food. Did you ever wonder why so many Cubans get on boats to come here, yet no one does the opposite (including you BTW)? Did you ever wonder why that might be?
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Old 02-02-2006, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Headless-Pixie";p=&quot View Post
Schwarz: I agree with you on most things you've said but why do we need to go socialist before communist? Why not instead of a brief period under a socialist oligarchy we just organize into communes and/or local soviets straight away?

Force: Your confusing communism with socialism. Communism where no leader has lead it has worked. Take the Spanish revolution or the communes set in the Ukraine before they were crushed by the red army. Genuine was equality was achieved in both cases and only collapsed because of invasion.

Communism was never meant to work on a large scale, it was meant to work on a communal scale, which is does. The only trick needed is linking up the communes into a federation. It's been done but it's been done by Anarchists not communists.
I do like the idea of a decentralized government and localized rule but I don't see why all the localities have to be communist. Let them be that way if they choose. I don't think a federation should have any control over them other than moderating disputes and perhaps setting basic human rights laws. The top-down nature of the US federation is the main problem I have with it, not to mention its wrong belief that somehow states are a small enough community unit to be considered localized. Most cities aren't even small enough for that.
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Old 02-02-2006, 06:54 AM
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Given the fact that communism has not worked in a single country that has adopted it proves that modern day communists are either incredibily stupid, naaive, or crazy.
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Old 02-02-2006, 06:58 AM
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I do like the idea of a decentralized government and localized rule but I don't see why all the localities have to be communist. Let them be that way if they choose. I don't think a federation should have any control over them other than moderating disputes and perhaps setting basic human rights laws. The top-down nature of the US federation is the main problem I have with it, not to mention its wrong belief that somehow states are a small enough community unit to be considered localized. Most cities aren't even small enough for that.
They don't, I'm sure a free market system could be worked around a local government federation. I only want the soviets to own and distribute everything because i believe this would result in a fairer distribution of wealth. I'd fully agree with you leave this up to voters on whether or not their soviet does this though. I'd also have all electables in the soviets instantly recallable and soviet meetings would be open to locals to walk into. Both of these would hopefully help to stamp out corruption.

Also agree that states are nowhere near small enough to be run on a local level. California has what, 34 million people?
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Old 02-02-2006, 07:00 AM
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The problem with anarcho-syndicalism (left-wing anarchism) is that it's impossible. People always want to rule over others. It's an instinct left over from evolution. Where there is anarchy, the next person to take control is usually very authoritarian (e.g. Franco), since nothing is stopping the strongest from simply taking power. Anarcho-capitalism might be possible because it would be a de facto plutocracy, but that is hardly an ideal society. Regarding communes, if someone wants to set one up that's fine by me (it's perfectly legal even in capitalist America), but when such communes are faced with opposition in a volatile political situation, especially from a right-wing authoritarian, they crumble, since they have little organization or wealth while the conqueror has both.
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Old 02-02-2006, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by ForceoftheTruth";p=&quot View Post
The problem with anarcho-syndicalism (left-wing anarchism) is that it's impossible. People always want to rule over others. It's an instinct left over from evolution. Where there is anarchy, the next person to take control is usually very authoritarian (e.g. Franco), since nothing is stopping the strongest from simply taking power.
People don't always want to rule over others as a product of evolution. If that were true you and I would want to rule over others. Am I not human? The thing your getting mixed up is the need of people to be accepted for their social status within the community they are socialized into. Dogs and apes are the same way, but their communities are more instinctually based than ours. That is why in egalitarian hunting-gathering tribes more focus is spent on feeding friends and family than on acquiring stuff. Actually acquiring stuff is considered bad to them.
People only seek power over others if that is what they are conditioned to do for status in their community. Notice that most successful Americans are more worried about having control of themselves than over others. Control over others also is necessary to those of low status or who have little control over themselves as a means to gain control of themselves or gain status.
In a small enough community, such troublesome deviants can be redirected or detained. It's only when there is a large enough number of like-minded low-status people that revolution occurs. And as far as war goes, it only happens when there is a scuttle over resources or some kind of interest. That is why a moderating authority and rule of law is always required or else standing militaries to act as deterrents.
So yes, some amount of law or defense is required. But no, there is not some built-in human "want to dominate others" mentality. We worry about our status, not who we control or what we control. And how we define status can vary almost infinitely.
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Old 02-02-2006, 07:20 AM
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Him: Move to Cuba.

You'd get better health care if you do.
And yet...we dont see a mass exodus to Cuba. Why do you think that is?

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But Tropico. Things work in Tropico, el presidente.
That game was awesome. I worked it like a slave labor camp.

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Cuba has free health-care & superior education compared to America, the only problem is the American embargo which has scared every other nation into staying away from Cuba.
Isnt it funny how America doesnt seem to be affected by similar embargos from Communist nations? Why do you think that is?

Communism is a lie. It is sugarcoated totalitarianism. Communists do not really want the masses to have the power. They just want their own brand of aristocracy.
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Old 02-02-2006, 07:24 AM
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That game was awesome. I worked it like a slave labor camp.
That's not very nice. I always ran a tourist economy. My digital people loved me!
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Old 02-02-2006, 07:28 AM
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Default I ran it a bunch of different ways.

It's amazing how long a game can go.
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Old 02-02-2006, 07:33 AM
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Am I alone in having empathy for even digital people. I once tried to run Tropico like a fascist military dictator but couldn't do it. I just wound up turning nice.
Same with Civilization. Never once won by military victory in any incarnation of the game.
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