This is why I hate myself for being a heterosexual male. If I act in any way differently around a beautiful woman than I would around a man or a woman who seems less attractive, I am dehumanizing her (as well as the supposedly less attractive woman). Now, some moderate feminists would state that male sexuality becomes a problem only if it sees women as valuable primarily for their appearance. Radical feminists disagree, and I see the case of radical feminists as stronger. Consider this. If I see a beautiful woman and 5% of my thoughts are related to her appearance, I am treating her as less than fully human. In other words, the same woman with the same intellect and character would receive 5% less notice from me. I am, therefore, treating both women as having only 95% of the worth of a man. That is why I have decided that all male carnal tendencies are sexist and that I must attempt to make my eyes gender-blind and never go on a date. Now, some men might counter by saying, "Women do the same thing". That is true, but far fewer of them do so far less often. Please don't attack me for posting this. I am truly sorry if it offends anyone, but I felt I had to discuss issues that are painful to me. Thank you very much.

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"I am a Tory Anarchist. I should like every one to go about doing just as he pleased- short of altering any of the things to which I have grown accustomed." (Max Beerbohm)

Are you aware that different men see different women as beautiful? You could stand the same woman in front of 10 men and each one will see differing degrees of beauty. so to say that you must become gender blind is pure lunacy.

Are you capable of standing next to a woman and not be sexually attracted to her? Of course you are. So if you interact with a woman and have no attraction to her how does she rate compared to a woman you are attracted to? How about a sister and a brother. Does the Brother automatically devalue his sister by not being attracted to her? Or his grandmother? It's ridiculous to think that you are some how degrading a person because you see them as attractive. It's how we are made, we gravitate toward people we find attractive for what ever reason. Being Humiliated is a choice, as is being offended and degraded. If you treat people fairly, honestly and be yourself, you have nothing to fear. If I treat you fairly and you choose to be offended by me there is little I can do to stop that from occuring.

You need to re-evaluate what you were taught in comparison to reality.

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Get on the Soap box at http://politicsforum.forumup.org/

Well, Bgdawg, you are a Fundamenalist, and Fundamentalists see women as deserving subordinate roles in society, so I can't take any advice from you on this subject. You may as well not waste your time posting in this thread and do something else that interests you. I don't mean that in an offensive way. I need a secular, sociological perspective on this subject.

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"I am a Tory Anarchist. I should like every one to go about doing just as he pleased- short of altering any of the things to which I have grown accustomed." (Max Beerbohm)

Why does treating her deifferently = dehumanizing.

They make the incorrect assumption that because a woman is valued for her appearance, that this must mean she cant be valued for other things. Or that ugly women arnt valued at all. That assumption is wrong.

Why is it fair to value a woman on intelligence or athletic ability, but not on beauty? After all, all these criteria are genetic.

Why?

You could say the same about a female athlete. Or a female genius. Does the female genius have more value than the female that is not a genius?

If you respect a man for being smart, doesnt that also devalue stupid men as being worth less?

Jesus Christ, will you STOP apologizing ?Thats the only thing I want to attack you on. It is so (*)(*)(*)(*) annoying. Grow some balls already.

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My Political Blog (Most recent update Oct 3rd) - Which Flame Warrior are you?

I should value women solely for their character. Even intelligence shouldn't matter. To ignore a woman's appearance entirely, however, I must somehow disavow my gender and gender in general. I am trying, but it is extremely painful and sometimes makes me suicidal.

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"I am a Tory Anarchist. I should like every one to go about doing just as he pleased- short of altering any of the things to which I have grown accustomed." (Max Beerbohm)

Is that really fair? After all, some women may have a genetic pre-disposition to what you consider to be bad character.

So instead of physical attractiveness, you value other genetic attributes. Oh yeah, thats way more fair, heh heh

You cant achieve goals if you cant define them. Explain to me what "character" is, how you objectively define "good" character, and how it is something all women can reasonably achieve regardless of their genetic predispositions.

If you judge them on character you are still judging them.

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My Political Blog (Most recent update Oct 3rd) - Which Flame Warrior are you?

Don't worry only an effeminate would make a statement like that. . you are "kosher". . .

1 Cor 6: 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Thank God there is one less antichrist with the death of. . . Betty Friedan née Betty Naomi Goldstein born February 4, 1921, Peoria, Illinois, U.S. American feminist best known for her book The Feminine Mystique (1963), which explored the causes of the frustrations of modern women in traditional roles.

I'll go a step further, S-S. I should deal with all people in precisely the same way- even apart from character. I should think of them all in precisely the same way as well. Otherwise, I am dehumanizing them. Trying to achieve that goal, which requires me to ignore gender, though, brings me panic attacks, tactile hallucinations of being raped and severe depression and debilitates me every day of my life. I am truly at a loss as to what I should do. Of course, you're not my counselor, but the political and the personal are interconnected. What I do in my life will affect my politics.

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"I am a Tory Anarchist. I should like every one to go about doing just as he pleased- short of altering any of the things to which I have grown accustomed." (Max Beerbohm)

How dehumanizing.

I really think you are being too hard on yourself. It's great that you can recognize and take responsibility for your feelings toward women though. However, don't you see that shows that you DO respect women, especially compared to a lot of other men?

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"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything."
-- Alexander Hamilton