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Old 03-03-2006, 08:27 AM
Sandy-Price Sandy-Price is offline
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Default We lost some freedoms yesterday

The U.S. Senate voted in the Patriot's bill permanently into our government. Say goodbye to your freedoms folks! Your Senators sold out to Bush's ridiculous concept of independence and freedoms. They are now only found in the Federal Government and lost by all individual Americans.

Yesterday was also a bad day for me as Harrty Browne died. He was the founder and head honcho of the Libertarian Party. You know the party of individual freedoms.....

America completely changed on Thursday March 2nd. Welcome Theocracy!
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Old 03-03-2006, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
The U.S. Senate voted in the Patriot's bill permanently into our government. Say goodbye to your freedoms folks!
...and hello to more security.

Did we really lose any freedoms? I hadnt noticed.

Quote:
Your Senators sold out to Bush's ridiculous concept of independence and freedoms.
To give us more security, which is what we wanted. Good to know our representatives are doing what we elected them to do.

Quote:
Yesterday was also a bad day for me as Harrty Browne died. He was the founder and head honcho of the Libertarian Party. You know the party of individual freedoms.....
...and weak foreign policy. Yes, I am familiar with the Libertarians.

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America completely changed on Thursday March 2nd.
I agree. it came closer to representing the will of the majority of Americans.
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Old 03-03-2006, 09:13 AM
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I thought I lost my freedom yesterday. Turned out I just put it in the wrong pocket. Oh well. I made a copy of my freedom last week in case I lose it again.
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Old 03-05-2006, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by JavaBlack";p=&quot View Post
I thought I lost my freedom yesterday. Turned out I just put it in the wrong pocket. Oh well. I made a copy of my freedom last week in case I lose it again.
Good Idea, because I do the same thing. I would lose my head if it weren't screwed on tight.
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Old 03-05-2006, 08:47 AM
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Default lost your freedom?

Java, I thought you were only just engaged!
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Old 03-05-2006, 04:16 PM
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Default .

Libertarians, regardless of how strongly I oppose their domestic social views, aren't "soft" on national security. In foreign policy, a libertarian/paleoconservative approach makes us more secure than any other in the long term.
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Old 03-06-2006, 02:48 AM
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Default telling myself

Losing freedoms? Why dont you try my little trick - I keep telling myself, over and over again, how really really free I am, I insistently, unrelentingly (almost convincingly!) urge the perfect nature of my freedom, how really, truly truly blessed with absolute freedom I am, and you know something, it works! No one has ever been able to strip me of my most precious lovely lovely free freedoms which I hold so dear and lovely lovingly cherish...

(Hey, just now, didnt I have two legs when I came in.....?)
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Old 03-06-2006, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior";p=&quot View Post
Quote:
The U.S. Senate voted in the Patriot's bill permanently into our government. Say goodbye to your freedoms folks!
...and hello to more security.

Did we really lose any freedoms? I hadnt noticed.
"Anyone who trades liberty for security deserves neither liberty nor security"

-Benjamin Franklin
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Old 03-06-2006, 08:46 AM
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My view of the Patriot Act and the NSA eavesdropping is that they are merely examples of what has been occurring for years anyway. The government has always found ways of spying on its citizens (e.g. J. Edgar Hoover) and undoubtedly has found excuses to search them and their property without warrants (or at least warrants obtained prior to the search) as well. So, while I oppose them in principle, perhaps the fact that the government is brazen enough to make the Patriot Act permanent may wake up people who imagine that this sort of thing hasn't been going on all along. It doesn't strike fear in me, but neither does terrorism. I don't feel safer or less safe because of these measures, though my personal view of them might be quite different if I were a Muslim and/or an Arab. Regardless, the world isn't coming to an end, because etching the Patriot Act into permanent law is just an official affirmation of decades of arrogant, invasive federal government policies. If democracy wasn't destroyed by J. Edgar Hoover, then I submit that no one today will destroy it by means similar to his.
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Old 03-06-2006, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
"Anyone who trades liberty for security deserves neither liberty nor security"

-Benjamin Franklin
Besides that fact that been only printed that and never wrote it himself,

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Ben_Franklin

Quote:
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
This statement was used as a motto on the title page of An Historical Review of the Constitution and Government of Pennsylvania. (1759) which was attributed to Franklin in the edition of 1812, but in a letter of September 27, 1760 to David Hume, he states that he published this book and denies that he wrote it, other than a few remarks that were credited to the Pennsylvania Assembly, in which he served. The phrase itself was first used in a letter from that Assembly dated November 11, 1755 to the Governor of Pennsylvania. An article on the origins of this statement here includes a scan that indicates the original typography of the 1759 document. Researchers now believe that a fellow diplomat by the name of Richard Jackson to be the primary author of the book. With the information thus far available the issue of authorship of the statement is not yet definitely resolved, but the evidence indicates it was very likely Franklin, who in the Poor Richard's Almanack of 1738 is known to have written a similar proverb: "Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power."
But besides that point, I think Ben was a good founding father but all and all would be proved wrong on many cases if you take his quotes for what they are such as...

Quote:
There never was a good war or a bad peace.
Letter to Josiah Quincy (September 11, 1783)
So if we take this quote to believe that Franklin truly would stick by that statement no matter what, he would have been against WWII, he should be ashamed that he helped push America into revolt against Britain. Which for some reason I highly doubt he would say he was against the Revolution, or that he would have been against fighting WWII, but I mean whatever if you like quotes I can help you out. Like Washington's,

Quote:
To be prepared for war is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace.
I would also like to remind you that we are currently at war, and since you like quotes so much I think their is no one better to quote the General Omar Bradley.

Quote:
In war there is no prize for the runner-up
And I would also state that we have yet to WIN this war and whether you want to argue that it should have happened or not no longer matters, that is a debate for historians and people dedicated to the metaphysical arts. And again since you love quotes so much we must remember the words of General Douglas MacArthur

Quote:
It is fatal to enter any war without the will to win it
So do you have the will to win this war? Or will you steep in its path and every time the government does something in order to attempt to put us on the path to victory will you constantly raise your voice in anger continuing to destroy the path of victory? Do you know why it took so long before it was voted on again? Because people wanted to make sure that their where provisions to protect civil liberties.
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