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Old 03-20-2006, 07:31 AM
Bart Bart is offline
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Default Why were the planes not shot down on 9-11?

Below is an excerpt from a thought provoking article regarding the September the eleventh attacks which was first published in the British newspaper The Guardian. Its author however is not your usual paranoid madman, but a respected former British Minister: Michael Meacher.

"All of this makes it all the more astonishing - on the war on terrorism perspective - that there was such slow reaction on September 11 itself. The first hijacking was suspected at not later than 8.20am, and the last hijacked aircraft crashed in Pennsylvania at 10.06am. Not a single fighter plane was scrambled to investigate from the US Andrews airforce base, just 10 miles from Washington DC, until after the third plane had hit the Pentagon at 9.38 am. Why not? There were standard FAA intercept procedures for hijacked aircraft before 9/11. Between September 2000 and June 2001 the US military launched fighter aircraft on 67 occasions to chase suspicious aircraft (AP, August 13 2002). It is a US legal requirement that once an aircraft has moved significantly off its flight plan, fighter planes are sent up to investigate."

To this very day, no credible explanation has been given.

The complete article can be read by clicking here.

Source
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Old 03-20-2006, 07:38 AM
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Default .

Nice try, but you are simply incorrect. Here is your credible explanation.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...tml?page=3&c=y

Quote:
On 9/11 there were only 14 fighter jets on alert in the contiguous 48 states. No computer network or alarm automatically alerted the North American Air Defense Command (NORAD) of missing planes. "They [civilian Air Traffic Control, or ATC] had to pick up the phone and literally dial us," says Maj. Douglas Martin, public affairs officer for NORAD. Boston Center, one of 22 Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) regional ATC facilities, called NORAD's Northeast Air Defense Sector (NEADS) three times: at 8:37 am EST to inform NEADS that Flight 11 was hijacked; at 9:21 am to inform the agency, mistakenly, that Flight 11 was headed for Washington (the plane had hit the North Tower 35 minutes earlier); and at 9:41 am to (erroneously) identify Delta Air Lines Flight 1989 from Boston as a possible hijacking. The New York ATC called NEADS at 9:03 am to report that United Flight 175 had been hijacked--the same time the plane slammed into the South Tower. Within minutes of that first call from Boston Center, NEADS scrambled two F-15s from Otis Air Force Base in Falmouth, Mass., and three F-16s from Langley Air National Guard Base in Hampton, Va. None of the fighters got anywhere near the pirated planes.
There you go!
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Old 03-20-2006, 08:10 AM
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Default ..

Quote:
Originally Posted by stekim";p=&quot View Post
Nice try, but you are simply incorrect. Here is your credible explanation.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...tml?page=3&c=y

Quote:
On 9/11 there were only 14 fighter jets on alert in the contiguous 48 states. No computer network or alarm automatically alerted the North American Air Defense Command (NORAD) of missing planes. "They [civilian Air Traffic Control, or ATC] had to pick up the phone and literally dial us," says Maj. Douglas Martin, public affairs officer for NORAD. Boston Center, one of 22 Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) regional ATC facilities, called NORAD's Northeast Air Defense Sector (NEADS) three times: at 8:37 am EST to inform NEADS that Flight 11 was hijacked; at 9:21 am to inform the agency, mistakenly, that Flight 11 was headed for Washington (the plane had hit the North Tower 35 minutes earlier); and at 9:41 am to (erroneously) identify Delta Air Lines Flight 1989 from Boston as a possible hijacking. The New York ATC called NEADS at 9:03 am to report that United Flight 175 had been hijacked--the same time the plane slammed into the South Tower. Within minutes of that first call from Boston Center, NEADS scrambled two F-15s from Otis Air Force Base in Falmouth, Mass., and three F-16s from Langley Air National Guard Base in Hampton, Va. None of the fighters got anywhere near the pirated planes.
There you go!
I don't know...the site you linked to promised to debunk the 9-11 myths, but I wasn't convinced, apparently the system didn't work properly on 9-11, a question comes to mind though: how come it worked perfectly 67 times in the nine months leading to nine eleven, this becomes more suspicious when taking into account that the 67 previous times were only mild course deviations, whereas the planes toured the US freely for a much longer period of time. There were no mild course deviations, they simply flew around happy and without a care in the world.

Come on man.....you're free to believe whatever you want, but doesn't it strike you as odd?
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Old 03-20-2006, 08:11 AM
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Let me guess: Your house is covered in tin foil.
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Old 03-20-2006, 08:14 AM
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Default Let's not go there

Quote:
Originally Posted by stekim";p=&quot View Post
Let me guess: Your house is covered in tin foil.
Steklim, let's not lower ourselves to such debating techniques.
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Old 03-20-2006, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart";p=&quot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by stekim";p=&quot View Post
Nice try, but you are simply incorrect. Here is your credible explanation.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...tml?page=3&c=y

Quote:
On 9/11 there were only 14 fighter jets on alert in the contiguous 48 states. No computer network or alarm automatically alerted the North American Air Defense Command (NORAD) of missing planes. "They [civilian Air Traffic Control, or ATC] had to pick up the phone and literally dial us," says Maj. Douglas Martin, public affairs officer for NORAD. Boston Center, one of 22 Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) regional ATC facilities, called NORAD's Northeast Air Defense Sector (NEADS) three times: at 8:37 am EST to inform NEADS that Flight 11 was hijacked; at 9:21 am to inform the agency, mistakenly, that Flight 11 was headed for Washington (the plane had hit the North Tower 35 minutes earlier); and at 9:41 am to (erroneously) identify Delta Air Lines Flight 1989 from Boston as a possible hijacking. The New York ATC called NEADS at 9:03 am to report that United Flight 175 had been hijacked--the same time the plane slammed into the South Tower. Within minutes of that first call from Boston Center, NEADS scrambled two F-15s from Otis Air Force Base in Falmouth, Mass., and three F-16s from Langley Air National Guard Base in Hampton, Va. None of the fighters got anywhere near the pirated planes.
There you go!
I don't know...the site you linked to promised to debunk the 9-11 myths, but I wasn't convinced, apparently the system didn't work properly on 9-11, a question comes to mind though: how come it worked perfectly 67 times in the nine months leading to nine eleven, this becomes more suspicious when taking into account that the 67 previous times were only mild course deviations, whereas the planes toured the US freely for a much longer period of time. There were no mild course deviations, they simply flew around happy and without a care in the world.

Come on man.....you're free to believe whatever you want, but doesn't it strike you as odd?
No system is 100% perfect. Our system then had flaws that are being addressed (perhaps too much) but it was (*)(*)(*)(*) good. The terrorists found a weakness and it just wasn't a good day. Chaos theory summarized: a lot of unrelated little things exponentially add up to something big. Deal with it. That's how the universe works.
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That information is classified and to be given only on a need-to-know basis...

And I do not need to know.
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Old 03-20-2006, 08:24 AM
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It seems rather obvious what happened. In the other cases the FAA called NORAD, just like on 9/11, but since there was nothing sinister going on with those planes, there was adequate time for the system to "work". In other words, the lack of any actual threat gave NORAD plenty of time. On 9/11 there was not enough time AND the FAA folks screwed up. Regardless, the explanation is beyond "credible" and the matter is pretty much closed.
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Old 03-20-2006, 08:49 AM
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Default ..

Quote:
Originally Posted by JavaBlack";p=&quot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart";p=&quot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by stekim";p=&quot View Post
Nice try, but you are simply incorrect. Here is your credible explanation.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...tml?page=3&c=y

Quote:
On 9/11 there were only 14 fighter jets on alert in the contiguous 48 states. No computer network or alarm automatically alerted the North American Air Defense Command (NORAD) of missing planes. "They [civilian Air Traffic Control, or ATC] had to pick up the phone and literally dial us," says Maj. Douglas Martin, public affairs officer for NORAD. Boston Center, one of 22 Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) regional ATC facilities, called NORAD's Northeast Air Defense Sector (NEADS) three times: at 8:37 am EST to inform NEADS that Flight 11 was hijacked; at 9:21 am to inform the agency, mistakenly, that Flight 11 was headed for Washington (the plane had hit the North Tower 35 minutes earlier); and at 9:41 am to (erroneously) identify Delta Air Lines Flight 1989 from Boston as a possible hijacking. The New York ATC called NEADS at 9:03 am to report that United Flight 175 had been hijacked--the same time the plane slammed into the South Tower. Within minutes of that first call from Boston Center, NEADS scrambled two F-15s from Otis Air Force Base in Falmouth, Mass., and three F-16s from Langley Air National Guard Base in Hampton, Va. None of the fighters got anywhere near the pirated planes.
There you go!
I don't know...the site you linked to promised to debunk the 9-11 myths, but I wasn't convinced, apparently the system didn't work properly on 9-11, a question comes to mind though: how come it worked perfectly 67 times in the nine months leading to nine eleven, this becomes more suspicious when taking into account that the 67 previous times were only mild course deviations, whereas the planes toured the US freely for a much longer period of time. There were no mild course deviations, they simply flew around happy and without a care in the world.

Come on man.....you're free to believe whatever you want, but doesn't it strike you as odd?
No system is 100% perfect. Our system then had flaws that are being addressed (perhaps too much) but it was (*)(*)(*)(*) good. The terrorists found a weakness and it just wasn't a good day. Chaos theory summarized: a lot of unrelated little things exponentially add up to something big. Deal with it. That's how the universe works.
Terrorists found a weakness? How? Which highly classified info on the inner workings of the US Air Defense System did they had access to?
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Old 03-20-2006, 08:58 AM
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He doesn't mean they looked for and found a weakness. He means they stumbled on to the weakness. Which was response time. It takes time for the FAA to realize there's a hijacking, locate planes with transponders shut off and call NORAD. That time lapse allowed the terrorists to fly the short distances they needed to fly. 9/11 was a combination of government ineptness and good, old fashioned luck. It was not the result of some massive conspiracy cooked up by the PNAC crowd. They aren't that bright.
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Old 03-20-2006, 09:03 AM
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The 9/11 atrocity was probably a unique event. America was not psychologically prepared for Manhattan Island to be the target of a suicide mission involving hi-jacked planes. No foreign enemy in modern times had penetrated the US mainland and inflicted casualties there.

It's understandable that the reaction from the US defense system was not as efficient as we would wish, and vigilance was not as focused as it ought to have been - but it's easy to be critical in hindsight.
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