Political Forum
     

Go Back   Political Forum > General Political Chat > Political Opinions & Beliefs


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 04-26-2006, 01:58 PM
ForceoftheTruth's Avatar
ForceoftheTruth ForceoftheTruth is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon
Posts: 8,897
ForceoftheTruth is on a distinguished road
Credits: 42,790
Default Affirmative Action

I strongly support affirmative action, including quotas if necessary. However, I recognize negative social trends that indirectly come from affirmative action as it is currently implemented. First, there is the problem of having a "token woman" or "token minority" among a group of white males. Women and minorities given such a position because of a quota are often treated with disrespect and given no real power. Another problem is that when a woman or a minority achieves something without affirmative action, they are often presumed to have been helped by the government, which demeans their accomplishments and results in the same disrespect I described above. Finally, there is the false perception on a larger scale among some whites and some males that women and minorities are given a "free pass" (ignoring the legitimate reasons for affirmative action), which often leads to a new kind of prejudice. I absolutely support affirmative action even though I will never personally benefit from it (I am a white male), so I'm not trying to debate whether or not affirmative action should exist. Instead, I want to understand how the above and other unintentional problems related to affirmative action can be solved while keeping affirmative action in tact. I appreciate all replies. Thank you very much.
__________________
"I am a Tory Anarchist. I should like every one to go about doing just as he pleased- short of altering any of the things to which I have grown accustomed." (Max Beerbohm)
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Red Cross - Donate Today    Save the Rainforest
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 04-26-2006, 02:00 PM
JavaBlack's Avatar
JavaBlack JavaBlack is online now
Site Moderator
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Michigan
Age: 29
Posts: 15,408
usa us michigan
JavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond repute
Credits: 103,003
Default ..

I really don't think affirmative action can work. This is a cultural battle. Politics only complicates it.
__________________
"Man lives in the sunlit world of that which he believes to be reality. But unseen by most is an underworld, a place that is just as real... but not as brightly lit... A DARK SIDE!"
-opening from Tales From the Darkside
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 04-26-2006, 02:11 PM
ForceoftheTruth's Avatar
ForceoftheTruth ForceoftheTruth is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon
Posts: 8,897
ForceoftheTruth is on a distinguished road
Credits: 42,790
Default .

To me, the issue is not so much making up for past discrimination (though that is very important) as it is fighting current discrimination. Women can't prove that they are just as capable of leadership as men if the men who currently hold power believe that they are not and so don't give them true equal opportunity. African Americans can't fight the false stereotype that they are lazy if they are not given work because of racism. The power structure has to be altered fundamentally to eliminate these stereotypes, but I want it to be in a way that doesn't lead to new kinds of prejudice.
__________________
"I am a Tory Anarchist. I should like every one to go about doing just as he pleased- short of altering any of the things to which I have grown accustomed." (Max Beerbohm)
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 04-26-2006, 02:14 PM
JavaBlack's Avatar
JavaBlack JavaBlack is online now
Site Moderator
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Michigan
Age: 29
Posts: 15,408
usa us michigan
JavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond repute
Credits: 103,003
Default ...

Urban development and dissipation of the ghettos is more important to helping poor minorities. Women are not having much trouble these days that anything like affirmative action will fix. Rather if women are to achieve economic equity, they need to take interest in math and science. They're already doing well in administrative jobs and catching up in government. They don't need laws to compete.
__________________
"Man lives in the sunlit world of that which he believes to be reality. But unseen by most is an underworld, a place that is just as real... but not as brightly lit... A DARK SIDE!"
-opening from Tales From the Darkside
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 04-26-2006, 02:39 PM
MerlinX's Avatar
MerlinX MerlinX is offline
Commentator
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Occupied California
Posts: 1,442
usa us california
MerlinX is on a distinguished road
Credits: 10,989
Default .

Affirmative action is counter-productive to any attempt to foster a color-blind society. It separates people into categories, and encourages everyone to think only in terms of those categories. We focus on race quotas and disregard the individual.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 04-26-2006, 04:20 PM
ForceoftheTruth's Avatar
ForceoftheTruth ForceoftheTruth is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon
Posts: 8,897
ForceoftheTruth is on a distinguished road
Credits: 42,790
Default .

The problem is that our society is not color blind with or without affirmative action. Racism is still a severe and widespread blight on our society.
__________________
"I am a Tory Anarchist. I should like every one to go about doing just as he pleased- short of altering any of the things to which I have grown accustomed." (Max Beerbohm)
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 04-26-2006, 06:05 PM
bktx1 bktx1 is offline
Sr. Correspondent
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dallas
Posts: 577
bktx1 is on a distinguished road
Credits: 2,864
Default I'm with Merlin

AA is destructive to everyone. People should be judged on their abilities. Employers who hold racist or biased views are only hurting themselves, and their companies will fail. Any company worth their salt will hire the best people, period!
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 04-26-2006, 07:47 PM
superbadbrutha's Avatar
superbadbrutha superbadbrutha is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Blue Heaven
Posts: 3,737
us north carolina
superbadbrutha is a splendid one to beholdsuperbadbrutha is a splendid one to beholdsuperbadbrutha is a splendid one to beholdsuperbadbrutha is a splendid one to beholdsuperbadbrutha is a splendid one to beholdsuperbadbrutha is a splendid one to beholdsuperbadbrutha is a splendid one to beholdsuperbadbrutha is a splendid one to behold
Credits: 16,268
Default Why was AA created?

First you have to look at the reason it was created, next you must figure out if it has helped the people it was designed to help, then u must figure out if there is still a need for it and lastly, if it is still needed then how do u improve on it. Peace.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2006, 04:27 AM
JavaBlack's Avatar
JavaBlack JavaBlack is online now
Site Moderator
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Michigan
Age: 29
Posts: 15,408
usa us michigan
JavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond repute
Credits: 103,003
Default ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ForceoftheTruth";p=&quot View Post
The problem is that our society is not color blind with or without affirmative action. Racism is still a severe and widespread blight on our society.
But you see, as Merlin said, AA perpetuates the existence of race in legislature. While it might have helped a little in the short term as far as diffusing minorities into higher classes (though most of it was actually individual effort), it has done a lot more to create resentment and force companies to consider race who mmay not have initially.
Racism is frustrating because it exists whether we ignore or confront it. But it does seem to be decreasing over time as we destroyed racist legislation and as different races intermingle in the workplace, school, and community. Legislation as we have now forces us to continue looking at race for hiring and enrollment and thus gets in the way.
Vouchers for poor kids in ghettos and economic development in urban areas would help to diffuse populations in a less racist way.
__________________
"Man lives in the sunlit world of that which he believes to be reality. But unseen by most is an underworld, a place that is just as real... but not as brightly lit... A DARK SIDE!"
-opening from Tales From the Darkside
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2006, 06:49 AM
Headless-Pixie's Avatar
Headless-Pixie Headless-Pixie is offline
Commentator
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Walsall
Posts: 1,165
Headless-Pixie is on a distinguished road
Credits: 6,586
Send a message via MSN to Headless-Pixie
Default .

Take hiring out of private hands and make AA unnecessary.
__________________
What's this i hear bed? Word has it you and Pam are sleeping together.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off
Forum Jump

Sponsored Links

All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0
Template-Modifikationen durch TMS
vBCredits v1.3 ©2007 by Darkwaltz4
Advertisement System V2.1 By   Branden