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Old 06-04-2006, 11:28 PM
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Default Academic Freedom no more?

I was just reading this article about academic freedom. I know some of you will jump in here and call me anti-semite again. If you want to waste your time with that nonsense go right ahead but it means nothing to me.

I don't consider this anti anything except anti-censorship. Everywhere you look this influence seems to be everywhere. Something just doesn't seem right. I can't imagine if this was a muslim that it would be tolerated or for that matter a Christian. It's like I pointed out in some other threads, you say the wrong thing about certain people who have wormed their way into all kinds of powerful positions and your career is over. These are some ruthless psychopaths who don't care about anything except control.

Quote:
Basic Facts of the Academic Freedom Violation at Roosevelt Univeristy
by DJ ProFusion
Mon May 08, 2006 at 09:39:30 PM PDT
Since so many people have asked, I thought it would be good to recount the basic facts of the academic freedom case at Roosevelt University.

DJ ProFusion's diary :: ::
I am Douglas Giles, the adjunct professor who was fired for allowing students to speak openly in a World Religions class. I have taught college philosophy, ethics, and religion since 1998. I believe that students deserve the opportunity to learn divergent viewpoints and make up their own minds. As such, I welcome questions and allow students to share their opinions and experiences as discussion is absolutely crucial to quality education.

Roosevelt University's Chair of the Department of History, Art History and Philosophy, Susan Weininger is an art history professor who has never taught religion or philosophy. Other than the interview in which she hired me in December 2003, she and I had not spoken before a series of phone calls she placed to me at my home in September 2005. In these phone calls, she told me, as department chair, to change my World Religions curriculum to exclude certain opinions and facts:

* Students should not be allowed to ask whatever questions they want in class
* Nothing should be mentioned in class, textbooks, or examinations that could possibly open up Judaism to criticism, especially any mention of Zionism
* Nothing related to Palestinians or Islamic beliefs about Jerusalem should be mentioned
* Discussion of Zionism or the Palestinian issue was "disrespectful to any Jews in the class"

I replied that those restrictions would lead to a biased class. She then made a series of disparaging comments about Palestinians concluding with the following:
W: "I hear you even allowed a Muslim to speak in class."
G: "Yes, of course, I allowed all students to speak, regardless of their religion!"
W: "You shouldn't! What disturbs me is that you act like the Palestinians have a side in this. They don't have a side! They are ANIMALS (emphasis hers)! They strap bombs to their bodies and blow up women and children! They are NOT CIVILIZED! (emphasis hers)"
She then ordered me to never bring up the conversation again to anyone and hung up. I did report the conversations to my union representative. Within a few days, I received a letter from Weininger saying I would no longer be teaching at Roosevelt.

The reason for my job termination is clear. Because I allowed open and respectful discussion of Judaism and Islam in my classes, I am censored from teaching at Roosevelt. My union, RAFO (Roosevelt Adjunct Faculty Organization - http://rafo.org) has consistently supported me in fighting this violation of academic freedom. They filed a formal grievance Nov. 29, 2005. Roosevelt's response has been a succession of disingenuous delaying tactics. Every communication their story changes, yet, Roosevelt has never once denied that Weininger made the statements. Roosevelt's Associate Provost, Louise Love, has even defended Weininger's statements saying that "as chair of the department, Weininger had a right to express her views," that "it is within the University's province to determine its curriculum," and that Weininger's demand that Giles restrict the content of the course "is not an issue of academic freedom but a pedagogical one." Love even characterized Weininger's comments disparaging Palestinians as an "academic discussion" where Weininger was "defending her position passionately."

RAFO's executive council members have gone above and beyond the call and I can't praise them enough. They have risked their own faculty positions to fight for the rights of all faculty and students at Roosevelt. They have been extraordinarily patient and have given Roosevelt every opportunity to resolve this case. In response, Roosevelt has offered four different cover stories to try and shift the argument away from the academic freedom violation. Their cover stores are clearly manufactured, self-contradictory, and at times laughable in how obviously false they are. In essence, Roosevelt has been lying. Roosevelt also has continually refused to consider our evidence, speak with our witnesses, refused to negotiate in good faith, refused to provide requested information, and conducted themselves in such a manner that RAFO has filed two additional grievances over Roosevelt's contract violations. We are currently scheduled for national arbitration and are supported in our academic freedom case by the Illinois Education Association.

I hope that you also find this deeply troubling. This ugly episode impinges on all of us and our freedom to teach and learn without interference. In no way should faculty and staff ever be censored or pressured to discuss subjects from only one biased perspective. If these acts are allowed to stand, then the standards and learning environment of education not only at Roosevelt University but everywhere have been damaged.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/5/9/03930/61236
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Old 06-06-2006, 06:48 AM
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If his account of what happened indeed matches reality, then I agree with you. Universities are places where people are supposed to be free to ask questions.
My prof in ME Studies did a great job of balancing Zionist and Palestinian sides of the story. It is possible. And it's better to hear both sides than no sides.
The thing is that I have a hard time picturing that dialogue actually taking place. It sounds like one of those dialogues from the silly religious comic pamphlets. I'd like to hear other accounts. The professor's point of view might be skewed. But then again, I have found myself shocked by stupid dialogues in the past and it will happen again I'm sure.
Academic freedom is something I feel needs to be heavily defended. The terrible thing is that some powerful people from both sides seem to want to silence their academic foes. We have liberals trying to enforce PC. We have conservatives trying to prevent "anti-government", "anti-war", and "anti-Christian" questions or commentary from ever coming up.
The university of all places is where views should be brought to the forefront and challenged on their own merit.
And in this case, the prof appears to be being fair by allowing questions to come up.
But it could be that the head of the faculty feels that the questions are irrelevant to the class and the prof interprets the situation as being a PC one. I have been in classes where students constantly try to bring up tangents that detract from the subject matter of the class. Perhaps the questions are better for a ME Studies class than a religion class.
I would like to see what the other side says before drawing any conclusions.

But overall, I am troubled by the assault on academic freedom from both sides of the spectrum. And each uses the other's assault as fodder for their own (like that David Horowitz guy- what a tool). On one side they want to keep questions from being asked out of concern for politeness. On the other they want to keep questions from being asked that might "hurt our values" (ironically they often disguise it as protecting academic freedom by using the PC crowd... Like I've said before, PC is a liability for liberals).
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Old 06-06-2006, 11:39 AM
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Default I agree

Quote:
Originally Posted by JavaBlack";p=&quot View Post
If his account of what happened indeed matches reality, then I agree with you. Universities are places where people are supposed to be free to ask questions.
My prof in ME Studies did a great job of balancing Zionist and Palestinian sides of the story. It is possible. And it's better to hear both sides than no sides.
The thing is that I have a hard time picturing that dialogue actually taking place. It sounds like one of those dialogues from the silly religious comic pamphlets. I'd like to hear other accounts. The professor's point of view might be skewed. But then again, I have found myself shocked by stupid dialogues in the past and it will happen again I'm sure.
Academic freedom is something I feel needs to be heavily defended. The terrible thing is that some powerful people from both sides seem to want to silence their academic foes. We have liberals trying to enforce PC. We have conservatives trying to prevent "anti-government", "anti-war", and "anti-Christian" questions or commentary from ever coming up.
The university of all places is where views should be brought to the forefront and challenged on their own merit.
And in this case, the prof appears to be being fair by allowing questions to come up.
But it could be that the head of the faculty feels that the questions are irrelevant to the class and the prof interprets the situation as being a PC one. I have been in classes where students constantly try to bring up tangents that detract from the subject matter of the class. Perhaps the questions are better for a ME Studies class than a religion class.
I would like to see what the other side says before drawing any conclusions.

But overall, I am troubled by the assault on academic freedom from both sides of the spectrum. And each uses the other's assault as fodder for their own (like that David Horowitz guy- what a tool). On one side they want to keep questions from being asked out of concern for politeness. On the other they want to keep questions from being asked that might "hurt our values" (ironically they often disguise it as protecting academic freedom by using the PC crowd... Like I've said before, PC is a liability for liberals).
I agree PC junk is something the liberals need to rethink. Universities are not places for people to worry about getting your feelings hurt. If you are that sensitive then you don't belong there. These tough questions about the world should be discussed with a no bars hold attitude. Better to give everyone their say and open to debate than have desperate people out there trying to get heard using violence. They day Universities become indoctrination institutions is the day they might as well shut down.

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Old 06-06-2006, 06:53 PM
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I love rota only brings up issues that have to do with jews opressing someone or Jews doing something against someone who is attacking them. Funny, how he never brings up anything about anyone attacking Jews.
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Old 06-06-2006, 07:10 PM
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Default Darn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Printer2";p=&quot View Post
I love rota only brings up issues that have to do with jews opressing someone or Jews doing something against someone who is attacking them. Funny, how he never brings up anything about anyone attacking Jews.
Close but not quite what I expected. What happened to "Rota is an "Anti-Semite"?

Anyway how can I not post stories like that when they are all over the place every day? And how can I tell when someone has really attacked jews when they use "Anti-semite" against so many people all the time? It's like "The Boy Who Cried Wolf" so much it lost all it's shock value.
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Old 06-06-2006, 09:27 PM
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You're an anti-semite because you only post topics concerning Jews in a bad light. You could discuss plenty of types in a bad light - Catholics, Protestants, Hindus, Muslims, gays, straights, Kurds, Polynesians, Peruvians, Luxemburgians, people from Nebraska, etc. Apparantly when reading the news you only notice articles concerning Jews!
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Old 06-06-2006, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Printer2";p=&quot View Post
You're an anti-semite because you only post topics concerning Jews in a bad light. You could discuss plenty of types in a bad light - Catholics, Protestants, Hindus, Muslims, gays, straights, Kurds, Polynesians, Peruvians, Luxemburgians, people from Nebraska, etc. Apparantly when reading the news you only notice articles concerning Jews!
Well would it make you happy if I post a thread about how the Zionists are puppets of the Jesuits?
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Old 06-07-2006, 02:07 PM
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There are a million things happening in the world every day concerning all sorts of people. But, you only focus on the jews - that makes you an anti-semite.......

I focus on articles concerning all types of people, I dont only have one type of people as the focus on my news agenda.

Thus, you are an anti-semite! Post a topic or two not concerning the jews doing something bad and maybe you'll stop being an anti-semite.
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Old 06-07-2006, 09:10 PM
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so what if he is anti-semite. the article makes a good point, the teacher that was fired for provoking questioning and talking about issues deemed taboo by a bunch of politically correct liberals. Anti-semite or not the teacher only did what a good teacher at such a level of education is supposed to do.

printer2 you need to watch "mind of mencia" or see some of carlos mencia's stand up comedy on comedy central. In fact i think that all the people that are all about political correctness should watch carlos mencia. He is brilliant.
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Old 06-08-2006, 01:07 AM
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Default geez

Quote:
Originally Posted by Printer2";p=&quot View Post
There are a million things happening in the world every day concerning all sorts of people. But, you only focus on the jews - that makes you an anti-semite.......

I focus on articles concerning all types of people, I dont only have one type of people as the focus on my news agenda.

Thus, you are an anti-semite! Post a topic or two not concerning the jews doing something bad and maybe you'll stop being an anti-semite.
Anit-Zionist...how many times do I have to correct you? As far as posting a non-Zionist article......well I'll try...it will be hard but we'll see if I can do it...just give me a little time.


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