What if there was a referendum (in the near future) asking this question: "would you prefer that U.S. troops leave Iraq." What if the majority of Iraqis voted "Yes" "we want U.S. troops to leave ,now".

We already know from surveys that the outcome would suggest a strong preference for U.S. withdrawal. Would you accept this (democratic) Iraqi decision and urge the administration to bring the troops home???

We'll leave when we're ready to leave, because Iraq is not Panama or the Philippines or even that pitiful little Peurto Rican island where the Navy used to practice gunnery exercises. People asked in those cases but international stability was not an issue, so we acceded to their requests. Stakes are higher for that region, and we need the staging area in Iraq, for the Iran and Syrian campaigns yet to come.

If the answer was no, can you honestly tell me you would really shut up and let the matter rest? Would a referendum really convince you? Because polls dont seem to:

Even among people who support a decrease in troop levels, only a small minority want us to withdraw immediately.

Be careful what you ask for...

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My Political Blog (Last post Feb 14) - My MySpace Page

I'm not a Bush supporter, so you didn't ask for my opinion, but I'm going to share it with you anyway.

The short answer is, I would "begin the process" of troop withdrawal as soon as possible. But there are several nuances to consider.

First of all, that's not something you can do overnight, it took months to get all those troops there and it'll take months to get them out.

Second, there are many forms of "withdrawal". That word doesn't imply just leaving Iraq in a vacuum. The military reality probably involves "redeployment", which means that a big fraction of our troops won't be coming home anytime soon, they'll just be moved to different locations so they can continue gathering intelligence and so on.

But yes, all things considered, I believe it's time that we started thinking about beginning the process of bringing our troops home.

Unfortunately this latest Zarqawi thing has thrown a monkey wrench into that concept, 'cause there will doubtlessly be reprisals by his minions. Casey is correctly considering a temporary increase in troop levels just to deal with that eventuality.

But if what the Bush administration claims is true, which is that there are roughly a quarter million Iraqi troops and policemen that have now been "adequately trained", then I'd suggest that the sooner they get their feet wet, the better off we'll all be.

I know you're dying for us to get out. The problem is that while I didn't initially support this effort, now that we're there, the left is more a hindrance than a help. We need to clean up the mess we've made. I don't support removing our troops until Iraq has stabilized. To do so would invalidate the sacrifices our forces have already made and the suffering the Iraqi people have already experienced.

At this point, we have little choice but to finish the job or see it totally unravel into theocratic chaos.

And removing our troops would be incredibly selfish and short-sighted.

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Job 13:5 (New International Version)
If only you would be altogether silent! For you, that would be wisdom.

I think you misunderstood my question, S.S. The referendum I am suggesting would be for the Iraqi people, not Americans. So often on this forum and elsewhere, people argue about what Iraqis want. Polls have been conducted in Iraq but a referendum would be a much more reliable way of assessing this question. People may be afraid to respond honestly to a poll because of the absense of anonymity. Some of us believe that U.S. troops are the irritant that is creating violence and distrust rather than the cure. If Iraqis believe that they would be more secure w/o U.S. presence doesn't that strongly indicate that it is time to plan an organized exit strategy? If democracy is our reason for invading, they now have a government, don't they have the right to tell us to leave?

If Iraq really has a sovereign government as Bush the Lame likes to chirp then if they ask us to git, we should git. But we won't.
The permanent military bases we are installing there speak louder than all the pious rhetoric that bounces out of Washington. Read this...

How long after WWII have we had permanent bases in Italy, Germany, and Japan?

Were they less sovereign because of our presence?

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Job 13:5 (New International Version)
If only you would be altogether silent! For you, that would be wisdom.

Since they havnt asked us to "git" yet, you have no way of knowing that.

If we did obey such a request...would that prove to you that we are really sincere?

You mean the military bases that are being built with the consent of the legitimate Iraqi government? Those bases?

Do the Germans and Japanese not have a real sovereign government because we still have bases on their land?

I wouldnt be opposed to that, but I have no control over their legal system. If their laws (which they approved when they voted in their Constitution) dont allow for a referendum, then we have to default to the leaders they elected. Thats the way it works here as well.

None of the most recent polls seems to indicate a desire for us to leave immediately. Here's one I found from Jan 2006:


Ah...so what does this tell us? Of those polled, only 35% could even possibly want us to leave immediately. The vast majority want us to stay for teh forseeable future, IN SPITE of the fact that it pisses them off that we are there. They still think they need us there

If you have evidence to the contrary, feel free to post it. This poll is consistent with all the others I have seen within the last year.

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My Political Blog (Last post Feb 14) - My MySpace Page

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinio...46_iraq25.html

Like I said, polls are not terribly reliable in a country where people are distrustful and afraid. I saw the poll you posted. The one above says something different.

I find an oddly inconsistent point to the poll you posted. Most polls suggest that over half of Iraqis support attacks on U.S. troops. How could this be true if they also want troops to remain in the country for the "forseeable future"? Again, a referendum would be a more reliable way of knowing.

I am quite sure that the new Iraq leader has asked the U.S. to set up a schedule to withdraw.