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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 07-05-2006, 10:38 AM
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Default they lie

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Originally Posted by JavaBlack";p=&quot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by stekim";p=&quot View Post
I agree with you, however. Police lie their asses off all the time. Unrelated civilians are far less likely to lie about what happened.
I give them the benefit of the doubt. I think it's more like group-think and biased perception rather than outright lying.
But I could be wrong.
They lie. The last thing you will find in a court of law is justice. The prosecutors rise in stature by their win and loss record. That's all that matters to them and the police.

I was in a car accident one time. I was driving down the street and some fool pulled out of nowhere and hit me in the rear side panel. After the wreck a guy jumped out of the passenger door of the car that hit me and ran. So the guy that hit me fought his ticket in court. When he testified that it was my story against his, I of course told the prosecutor about the guy that jumped out and ran. He told me to keep my mouth shut about it. The guy lost the case but I was shocked that there was another witness and no one cared about it.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 07-05-2006, 10:41 AM
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Default Here's an interesting case

Settlement reached in fatal Sea-Doo accident

The lawsuit contended that SeaDoo was liable because they failed to have an adequate warning sticker on the watercraft. The mother said that if they had a sticker (a number 16 and a line through it), her daughter wouldn't have died.

As sad as this story is, I would not have held SeaDoo liable for much because the craft did exactly what it was made to do. It was not responsible for the accident.


How about this story? A couple's motorhome is in the shop for 5 full weeks waiting for repair of the refrigerator. The finally tell the shop that they are picking up the motorhome with or without a refrigerator. They are pleased to see that a new refrigerator has been installed when they pick it up. By midnight the next day, the motorhome is reduced to basically a flatbed trailer. The man escaped because he was close to the door when the fire started, the woman did not escape. The evidence shows that the motorhome was filling up with carbon monoxide because of a faulty refrigerator or improper installation. The refrigerator itself had been recalled for starting fires. Who should pay? The shop? The refrigerator manufacturer? The motorhome manufacturer? All three?

The motorhome manufacturer built a motorhome that was reduced to rubble in the space of half an hour.
The refrigerator manufacturer failed to see to it that all of the recalled refrigerators were back in their possession. When issuing a recall in which a previous death occured, it was incumbent upon them to do so.
The shop had to be aware that certain refrigerators had been recalled - specifically this model.

The dead woman was my Dad's wife. She was 44. What do y'all think?
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Old 07-05-2006, 10:52 AM
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Default .

I would not find the motorhome maker liable if the motorhome were up to specs in terms of fire safety. A hot enough fire will pretty much burn anything quickly. Further, nothing they put in the motorhome caught fire. It was an after market product. The fridge maker would pay heavily, however, unless it was clearly a case of improper installation. I would think liability would rest with the fridge maker and the shop to varying percentages depending on the facts.
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Old 07-05-2006, 11:03 AM
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Default well

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Originally Posted by The12thMan";p=&quot View Post
The refrigerator manufacturer failed to see to it that all of the recalled refrigerators were back in their possession. When issuing a recall in which a previous death occured, it was incumbent upon them to do so.
The shop had to be aware that certain refrigerators had been recalled - specifically this model.
If the refrigerator manufacturer issued the re-call and the shop never responded then it's the shops responsibility. I'm not sure how the refrigerator manufacturer can go around the country making sure all the shops that buy the defective product will comply with the re-call.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 07-05-2006, 11:18 AM
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Default Thanks for replying

Quote:
Originally Posted by stekim";p=&quot View Post
I would not find the motorhome maker liable if the motorhome were up to specs in terms of fire safety. A hot enough fire will pretty much burn anything quickly. Further, nothing they put in the motorhome caught fire. It was an after market product. The fridge maker would pay heavily, however, unless it was clearly a case of improper installation. I would think liability would rest with the fridge maker and the shop to varying percentages depending on the facts.
I was having similar thoughts until I saw the pictures of the motorhome after the fire. The laws of fire retardance are quite different than a regular home. I agree that they probably did everything within the guidelines, however, they should know better than anyone how their product responds in case of fire. At some point, I think the buck goes back to them.

I would certainly use cases like this to try to get guidelines strengthened. Also, people should be educated about what they are buying. Another thing is the emergency exit was in the bedroom window - too high for escape had she had the time (she didn't). A smoke alarm is just a joke when the whole thing goes up like a match.
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Old 07-05-2006, 11:24 AM
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Default .

I think proving negligence for the motorhome maker may be hard if they followed standard industry guidelines and met all federal requirements (but I don't have all the facts, obviously). Some fires get awfully hot and most everything in a motorhome is flammable. Did your dad bring a case?

My brother was killed 3 years ago and we filed a wrongful death suit. (*)(*)(*)(*) those things move slowly.
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Old 07-05-2006, 11:36 AM
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Default (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)

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Originally Posted by rota";p=&quot View Post
If the refrigerator manufacturer issued the re-call and the shop never responded then it's the shops responsibility. I'm not sure how the refrigerator manufacturer can go around the country making sure all the shops that buy the defective product will comply with the re-call.
That's what I would say in most cases. But, they knew who they had sent these refrigerators to. They should have seen to it that any refrigerators were not only pulled from the motorhomes, but they should have made sure to pick up any refrigerators that were not installed. A case of spoiled food is one thing, death is another.

I do believe the shop is the most culpable. I would go so far as to call it extreme indifference to human life. I'd like to see DeMontrond go out of business. Someone knew.
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Old 07-05-2006, 11:41 AM
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Default &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

Quote:
Originally Posted by stekim";p=&quot View Post
I think proving negligence for the motorhome maker may be hard if they followed standard industry guidelines and met all federal requirements (but I don't have all the facts, obviously). Some fires get awfully hot and most everything in a motorhome is flammable. Did your dad bring a case?
Hell yes. The dog died too. I would have sued the hell out of them just for that. I hope it goes to a jury. Picture my 75 year old dad jumping out of the motorhome naked and screaming for his wife to come out while he watched it burn. Yeah. What do you think a jury would give him?

Quote:
My brother was killed 3 years ago and we filed a wrongful death suit. (*)(*)(*)(*) those things move slowly.
Can you tell us about it? It's OK if you don't want to.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 07-05-2006, 11:46 AM
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Default yeah

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Originally Posted by The12thMan";p=&quot View Post

That's what I would say in most cases. But, they knew who they had sent these refrigerators to. They should have seen to it that any refrigerators were not only pulled from the motorhomes, but they should have made sure to pick up any refrigerators that were not installed. A case of spoiled food is one thing, death is another.
You make a good argument. I suppose I'd want to see just how many were sent out and how much of a problem it would have been to do that.

Quote:
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I do believe the shop is the most culpable. I would go so far as to call it extreme indifference to human life. I'd like to see DeMontrond go out of business. Someone knew.
It sounds like the shop had the camper for a long time and when they were told the camper was going to be picked up no matter what they threw in what they knew was defective equipment in a pinch. It might be they were waiting for the good equipment to be delivered and it was going to take time.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 07-05-2006, 11:59 AM
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Default .

Regarding the fridge, the maker can't force people to give them back, but they can get everything that's uninstalled back.

Quote:
Hell yes. The dog died too. I would have sued the hell out of them just for that. I hope it goes to a jury. Picture my 75 year old dad jumping out of the motorhome naked and screaming for his wife to come out while he watched it burn. Yeah. What do you think a jury would give him?
I figured he filed suit. But you never know. Are jury awards capped for things like that in Texas?

Quote:
Can you tell us about it? It's OK if you don't want to.
The short version is that he was switching out some dies on a new stamping machine. It was making a new product and the machine was one of a kind (no previous history to fall back on for specs, etc.). Anyway, there was apparently a major software and safety glitch. The machine turned itself on and pinned him inside. The emergency shut off switch was too far for him to reach. You can guess the rest. Dead. He left behind 4 kids (one of which was not even born at the time). Obviously, since the machine went Terminator and switched itself on, there is a small liability issue there.
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