If your 13 year old daughter was raped... - Page 2

Zoe · #11 (**permalink**) 08-29-2006, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oasis";p=&quot

Zoe, duly noted but I am free to express my opinion, sorry but I really want find this topic fascinating. I think I know what my mistake was. I just repeated myself from my original poll. Let me elaborate a bit more.
-That is the only magic you can do. The magical world makes you have to decide in 30 seconds. That's the only magic the magical world can do. (Try to get out of that one Joker,)
-I am trying to pose upon you a hypothetical situation, but I know many people have problems with that. (I don't know why)
-This poll is only if there was NO EXCEPTIONS yes or no abortion. I am saying this not because I have nothing else to do with my time, but I feel that if exceptions were made, people would always make exceptions. You know its true. So how would the poll be, with these spectacular additions? All feedback is appreciated.

I gave you the long answer, previously. I don't have a problem with the question because I am pro-choice. I would certainly allow a child of mine to have an abortion. Helping her get over the trauma of rape would be the bigger challenge.

Oasis · #12 (**permalink**) 08-29-2006, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoe";p=&quot

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oasis";p=&quot

Zoe, duly noted but I am free to express my opinion, sorry but I really want find this topic fascinating. I think I know what my mistake was. I just repeated myself from my original poll. Let me elaborate a bit more.
-That is the only magic you can do. The magical world makes you have to decide in 30 seconds. That's the only magic the magical world can do. (Try to get out of that one Joker,)
-I am trying to pose upon you a hypothetical situation, but I know many people have problems with that. (I don't know why)
-This poll is only if there was NO EXCEPTIONS yes or no abortion. I am saying this not because I have nothing else to do with my time, but I feel that if exceptions were made, people would always make exceptions. You know its true. So how would the poll be, with these spectacular additions? All feedback is appreciated.

I gave you the long answer, previously. I don't have a problem with the question because I am pro-choice. I would certainly allow a child of mine to have an abortion. Helping her get over the trauma of rape would be the bigger challenge.

So within the thirty seconds you would choose to allow your daughter to have an abortion in my magical story. Thanks. All I really needed was one person to tell me that my poll wasn't insane like my pevious history of poll- making failures. Thanks a lot.

ForceoftheTruth · #13 (**permalink**) 08-29-2006, 08:05 PM

The crime isn't the baby's fault. I couldn't allow the killing of the child. I'd badly want to kill the rapist, but I'd restrain myself. I don't think I would recover from having to make such a decision in real life, though. In reply to Zoe, I oppose fornication as well, and I agree that men could indirectly lower the abortion rate by not being promiscuous.

Joker · #14 (**permalink**) 08-29-2006, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForceoftheTruth";p=&quot

The crime isn't the baby's fault. I couldn't allow the killing of the child.

That's valid. Why should the child be punished? However, The trauma of having to raise a child whose birth was a product of rape is also something I could never force on a woman. I'd encourage a woman to give up the child for adoption, but even then, I would sympathize if she found that to be too traumatic as well.

Sex crimes are disgusting on so many levels.

Sadistic-Savior · #15 (**permalink**) 08-30-2006, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Why? Just write up a law forbidding abortion, with only two exceptions- rape and incest. Do you really think every woman will start screaming rape every time they get an undesired pregnancy?

It has happened lots of times before. If a woman really wants the abortion, and she does not care about what happens to the man, why wouldnt she claim rape?

She might even convince herself that it was rape. It all comes down to her word and her opinion, right?

Quote:

If your 13 year old daughter was raped would you still want abortions to be outlawed?(This means your sweet daughter cannot have an abortion)

What about the sweet grand daughter she is carrying in her womb? Does she get a vote?

It is not the child's fault that she was raped, or that the mother is young. You want to condemn the child to death for circumstances beyond it's control.

Sadistic-Savior · #16 (**permalink**) 08-30-2006, 06:53 AM

Quote:

I gave you the long answer, previously. I don't have a problem with the question because I am pro-choice. I would certainly allow a child of mine to have an abortion. Helping her get over the trauma of rape would be the bigger challenge.

How would you help her handle the trauma of killing her own child?

stekim · #17 (**permalink**) 08-30-2006, 07:05 AM

If she doesn't think it's a "child" she won't have trauma. If she does, she will. But then again, if she does she may not have the abortion to begin with.

Joker · #18 (**permalink**) 08-30-2006, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior";p=&quot

Quote:

Why? Just write up a law forbidding abortion, with only two exceptions- rape and incest. Do you really think every woman will start screaming rape every time they get an undesired pregnancy?

It has happened lots of times before. If a woman really wants the abortion, and she does not care about what happens to the man, why wouldnt she claim rape?

She might even convince herself that it was rape. It all comes down to her word and her opinion, right?

Oh, I'm sure there are a few nasty chicks out there who may abuse the exceptions, but lots? I guess that depends on how you define the word.

But what's your point? Are you supporting all abortions? Or are you saying there should be no exceptions in abortion laws?

political · #19 (**permalink**) 08-30-2006, 08:41 AM

Question:

Hi! My name is Diana

I am doing a school assignment for studies of religion at school and it asks me to research how two different religious traditions respond to euthanasia and abortion. I’ve been looking everywhere and came to this website and thought you mite help me. What does Islam has to say about EUTHANASIA and ABORTION?

Thank you.

Diana
Sydney, Australia

Answer:

Thank you for contacting JI Diana!
An assignment warrants serious in-depth studies, references and review, which means spending time and labour in libraries and other useful sources. Briefly, Islam does not permit abortion under normal health conditions, and considers it an elaborate act of killing an innocent person, which is heinous crime under any law.
Let me briefly explain for you once again.

(1) Abortion could be allowed for a lady's health sake, and that too when properly suggested by some responsible specialist/physician.

(2) Under normal health conditions, and particularly when the foetus is developed enough (that specialists consider it a live body), abortion amounts to deliberate killing and therefore, not allowed.

(3) Abortion or even prevention of conception for fear of economic hardships, is the negation of the basic article of Islamic faith that God is sole Provider and Sustainer of every living soul. That being the reason, the act will be un-Islamic.

(4) Seeking abortion for no "good" reason at all, and saying that the "mother" or "father" just does not want that baby - is inhuman and cruel thinking. No sane person would allow that.

(5) If even the conception is the result of extra-marital union or forced rape, abortion is not allowed, because the (innocent) baby to be, has the right to life, that can not be denied. The biological parents - both or either one - or else the society/state is responsible to take care of such "un-wanted" or illegal births.

Authentic specialist (medical) opinion can be obtained to ascertain if there was any serious danger to mother and child, and that there was really no other way to save the mother’s life, but through abortion. That seems only one condition, where abortion could be considered, again under the guidance of some learned scholar of Islamic Law. I am personally so scared about this issue of “abortion at demand”, that I generally flatly refuse to subscribe to the idea. The reason is that women (and at time husband as well) demand abortion for petty reasons, that only reflect inhuman anti-natalist mood. I am almost sure that in over-whelming cases the demand emanates from social taboos, the base-less economic fears, for not wanting to have a she baby and by way of fashion that has come along with the western concept of individuals’ rights and worldview. In a traditional Islamic society where alien culture is yet not dominant, the demand for abortion, or desire for a small family and the like, are still at the minimum level. Probably those areas provide genuine cases, where consideration was possible.

On the issue of euthanasia, Islamic position is that since a human being does not owns and masters his/her life, therefore, he can NOT decide and ask for death. No. The Islamic view starts from the fact that life (like the rest) is a trust from Allah, and can be terminated by Allah alone. There can be no euthanasia, whether with "dignity" or otherwise.
Reply with quote

Sadistic-Savior · #20 (**permalink**) 08-30-2006, 10:27 AM

Quote:

If she doesn't think it's a "child" she won't have trauma. If she does, she will. But then again, if she does she may not have the abortion to begin with.

She said she was concerned about trauma. Well, a lot of women who complete abortions later regret it and are traumatized by it.

IMO, Trauma is irrelevant. No amount of trauma justifies killing a child.

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Oh, I'm sure there are a few nasty chicks out there who may abuse the exceptions, but lots?

How do you determine the ratio if we are taking their word for it either way? There is no objective way of obtaining that data.

Quote:

But what's your point? Are you supporting all abortions? Or are you saying there should be no exceptions in abortion laws?

I voted yes in the poll. If the only options are to outlaw it or not, I choose to outlaw it.

Quote:

(1) Abortion could be allowed for a lady's health sake, and that too when properly suggested by some responsible specialist/physician.

Um...doesnt that conflict with #3 and #5? Why is the qualifier "particularly when the foetus is developed enough" used? According to 3 and 5, that should not matter:

Quote:

(3) Abortion or even prevention of conception for fear of economic hardships, is the negation of the basic article of Islamic faith that God is sole Provider and Sustainer of every living soul. That being the reason, the act will be un-Islamic.

[...]

(5) If even the conception is the result of extra-marital union or forced rape, abortion is not allowed, because the (innocent) baby to be, has the right to life, that can not be denied.The biological parents - both or either one - or else the society/state is responsible to take care of such "un-wanted" or illegal births.

According to numbers 3 and 5, ALL abortions should be against the law. At least according to the Islamic faith.

Quote:

(4) Seeking abortion for no "good" reason at all, and saying that the "mother" or "father" just does not want that baby - is inhuman and cruel thinking. No sane person would allow that.

They do not define what a "good" reason is. You dont consider that a bit vague?

View Poll Results: If your 13 year old daughter was raped would you still want abortions to be outlawed?
Outlaw it, forcing your daughter to give birth, even against her will.	3	25.00%
Don't outlaw it, and allow your daughter to receive an abortion.	9	75.00%
Voters: 12. You may not vote on this poll

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