Political Forum
     

Go Back   Political Forum > General Political Chat > Political Opinions & Beliefs


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 09-13-2006, 04:03 PM
heikstheo heikstheo is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ottawa County, Ohio
Age: 46
Posts: 4,923
usa us ohio
heikstheo is a splendid one to beholdheikstheo is a splendid one to beholdheikstheo is a splendid one to beholdheikstheo is a splendid one to beholdheikstheo is a splendid one to beholdheikstheo is a splendid one to beholdheikstheo is a splendid one to behold
Credits: 19,004
Default ...

Since there never was such an amendment, there was no need to remove it from the Constitution.
__________________
Theodore Lamar Heiks
BA, History/Political Science, Western State College of Colorado, 1984
MBA, Entrepreneurship/Marketing, City University of Seattle, 1993
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Red Cross - Donate Today    Save the Rainforest
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 09-13-2006, 04:04 PM
heikstheo heikstheo is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ottawa County, Ohio
Age: 46
Posts: 4,923
usa us ohio
heikstheo is a splendid one to beholdheikstheo is a splendid one to beholdheikstheo is a splendid one to beholdheikstheo is a splendid one to beholdheikstheo is a splendid one to beholdheikstheo is a splendid one to beholdheikstheo is a splendid one to behold
Credits: 19,004
Default ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MUNKO1970";p=&quot View Post
only CRAB FISHERMEN should be in govt... )
Why?
__________________
Theodore Lamar Heiks
BA, History/Political Science, Western State College of Colorado, 1984
MBA, Entrepreneurship/Marketing, City University of Seattle, 1993
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 09-13-2006, 06:03 PM
quiller's Avatar
quiller quiller is offline
Analyst
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,798
quiller is on a distinguished road
Credits: 16,447
Default never again. monica

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mack";p=&quot View Post
So the people who understand law the best shouldn't be allowed to make laws? Claiming all lawyers are evil is the sign of a small minded person.
Or, more practically, we prevent lawyers because William J. Clinton and his entire Cabinet were lawyers.

Bubba also pledged to have "the most ethical administration in history."

Only a Dem can't figure this out.
__________________
Delivering tasty bite-sized Clues to liberals since 1965.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 09-14-2006, 05:04 AM
Truth-Bringer's Avatar
Truth-Bringer Truth-Bringer is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4,850
usa us alabama
Truth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to behold
Credits: 46,116
Default Liberty is about equal individual rights

Quote:
Originally Posted by MerlinX";p=&quot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by raytri";p=&quot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Truth-Bringer";p=&quot View Post
We should pass a Constitutional amendment to prevent lawyers from serving in government.
I thought you opposed amendments that restricted liberty? Now today you're proposing amendments left and right.
Raytri's right. An amendment banning lawyers from government service would restrict liberty. Besides there is a already a way to keep lawyers from serving in government: don't vote for them.
It's probably a fine line, but number one, the amendment falls in line with the original intent of the Constitution because all nobility titles were supposed to be banned.

This does not restrict liberty in that regard. No one should have a special class and title that grants them special status over others, either real or perceived.

"To confer a title of nobility, is to nominate to an order of persons to whom privileges are granted at the expense of the rest of the people. It is not necessarily hereditary, and the objection to it arises more from the privileges supposed to be attached, than to the otherwise empty title or order... [The purpose of the prohibition on titles of nobility is the state constitution] is to preserve the equality of citizens in respect to their public and private rights."
__________________
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." - Schopenhauer
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 09-14-2006, 05:11 AM
JavaBlack's Avatar
JavaBlack JavaBlack is offline
Site Moderator
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Michigan
Age: 29
Posts: 16,334
usa us michigan
JavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond reputeJavaBlack has a reputation beyond repute
Credits: 109,432
Default ...

What about doctors, ministers, mechanics, college graduates...
The list goes on. There are all kinds of licenses that create such illusory statuses.
Perhaps we should just let anyone run and vote against them if we don't like them.
__________________
"Man lives in the sunlit world of that which he believes to be reality. But unseen by most is an underworld, a place that is just as real... but not as brightly lit... A DARK SIDE!"
-opening from Tales From the Darkside
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 09-14-2006, 05:26 AM
Truth-Bringer's Avatar
Truth-Bringer Truth-Bringer is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4,850
usa us alabama
Truth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to behold
Credits: 46,116
Default Or...

Quote:
Originally Posted by heikstheo";p=&quot View Post
If you pass an amendment prohibiting lawyers from serving in the government, most laws will end up being so poorly drawn as to be unconstitutional as hell.
I think it would actually be just the opposite. Laws would be written in more simple language that would be easily understood as unconstitutional.

What you fail to acknowledge is that most every single law being passed these days is unconstitutional. The only Congressman who actually votes on laws based on constitutionality is Ron Paul - and that's why he's known as "Dr. No" on the hill.

Quote:
Who would we have to fill our judgeships? Or prosecuting attorneys' offices? Our defense attorneys' offices? Genius!
Probably people that aren't as money, power or status oriented as lawyers. What is so wonderful about the lawyers and judges in our system now? It's thoroughly corrupt, as you can see here:

http://www.politicalforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=20262

We have MASSIVE corruption in the legal system. What is all this alleged legal knowledge getting us? Apparently not much.
__________________
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." - Schopenhauer
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 09-14-2006, 05:29 AM
Truth-Bringer's Avatar
Truth-Bringer Truth-Bringer is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4,850
usa us alabama
Truth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to behold
Credits: 46,116
Default But...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JavaBlack";p=&quot View Post
What about doctors, ministers, mechanics, college graduates...
The list goes on. There are all kinds of licenses that create such illusory statuses.
Perhaps we should just let anyone run and vote against them if we don't like them.
Licenses, but not nobility titles. Hang on though - I'm about to go into more detail.
__________________
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." - Schopenhauer
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 09-14-2006, 05:48 AM
Truth-Bringer's Avatar
Truth-Bringer Truth-Bringer is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4,850
usa us alabama
Truth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to behold
Credits: 46,116
Default But there's some evidence...

Quote:
Originally Posted by raytri";p=&quot View Post
LOL. Considering many members of the Constitutional Convention were themselves lawyers, I find that difficult to believe.
You find everything that differs from the opinions you already hold difficult to believe. You should take a lesson from Samuel Johnson:

"Among the innumerable mortifications which waylay human arrogance on every side may well be reckoned our ignorance of the most common objects
and effects, a defect of which we become more sensible by every attempt to supply it. Vulgar and inactive minds confound familiarity with knowledge
and conceive themselves informed of the whole nature of things when they are shown their form or told their use; but the speculatist, who is not content with superficial views, harasses himself with fruitless curiosity, and still, as he inquires more, perceives only that he knows less."

Quote:
Here's a link:
http://www.prisoners.com/mythff.html

It dislikes lawyers, but even it acknowledges how many lawyers were in on the founding of our country.
True, but some of the Founders weren't lawyers, and even some that were recognized a problem with the system.

The "missing" 13th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States reads as follows:

"If any citizen of the United States shall accept, claim, receive, or retain any title of nobility or honour, or shall without the consent of Congress, accept and retain any present, pension, office, or emolument of any kind whatever, from any emperor, king, prince, or foreign power, such person shall cease to be a citizen of the United States, and shall be incapable of holding any office of trust or profit under them, or either of them." [Emphasis added.}

At the first reading, the meaning of this 13th Amendment (also called the "title of nobility" Amendment) seems obscure, unimportant. The references to "nobility", "honour", "emperor", "king", and "prince" lead us to dismiss this amendment as a petty post-revolution act of spite directed against the British monarchy. But in our modern world of Lady Di and Prince Charles, anti-royalist sentiments seem so archaic and quaint, that the Amendment can be ignored.

Not so.

Consider some evidence of its historical significance: First, "titles of nobility" were prohibited in both Article VI of the Articles of Confederation (1777) and in Article I, Sect. 9 of the Constitution of the United States (177; Second, although already prohibited by the Constitution, an additional "title of nobility" amendment was proposed in 1789, again in 1810, and according to Dodge, finally ratified in 1819. Clearly, the founding fathers saw such a serious threat in "titles of nobility" and "honors" that anyone receiving them would forfeit their citizenship. Since the government prohibited "titles of nobility" several times over four decades, and went through the amending process (even though "titles of nobility" were already prohibited by the Constitution), it's obvious that the Amendment carried much more significance for our founding fathers than is readily apparent today.

http://w3f.com/patriots/13/13th-02.html

Again, all the information has to be considered in its totality. I really don't want to copy & paste each section of the entire link here, but if you don't read it all, you're not going to understand the issue. The international bar association link is especially critical.
__________________
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." - Schopenhauer
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 09-14-2006, 05:54 AM
Truth-Bringer's Avatar
Truth-Bringer Truth-Bringer is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4,850
usa us alabama
Truth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to behold
Credits: 46,116
Default But please...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ForceoftheTruth";p=&quot View Post
Sorry, fellow truth seeker, but I have to disagree. Everyone but convicted felons should be free to hold office. Let the voters decide.
We certainly all have the right to disagree with one another, and I respect yours and Java Black's opinions, but please read my threads on judicial corruption and fiat currency/central banking:

http://www.politicalforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=19960

http://www.politicalforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=20262

And then read EVERY WORD of every section of the original link I posted on this issue:

http://w3f.com/patriots/13/13th-01.html

Then fully consider everything you read, and get back to me on it.
__________________
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." - Schopenhauer
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 09-14-2006, 07:57 AM
raytri's Avatar
raytri raytri is offline
Site Moderator
Guru
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Minnesota
Age: 41
Posts: 17,619
usa us minnesota
raytri has a reputation beyond reputeraytri has a reputation beyond reputeraytri has a reputation beyond reputeraytri has a reputation beyond reputeraytri has a reputation beyond reputeraytri has a reputation beyond reputeraytri has a reputation beyond reputeraytri has a reputation beyond reputeraytri has a reputation beyond reputeraytri has a reputation beyond reputeraytri has a reputation beyond repute
Credits: 110,782
Default dgdgdg

Quote:
Originally Posted by Truth-Bringer";p=&quot View Post
This does not restrict liberty in that regard. No one should have a special class and title that grants them special status over others, either real or perceived.
How.... Communist.
__________________
Man up.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off
Forum Jump

Sponsored Links

All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:53 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0
Template-Modifikationen durch TMS
vBCredits v1.3 ©2007 by Darkwaltz4
Advertisement System V2.1 By   Branden