Thread: Are Jews becoming even more like the Nazis?

Originally Posted by Awryly

You view the comparison with Nazis as 'hateful" only because it involves Jews in Israel.

In your book, that makes it anti-semitic and a Holocaust denial.

Of course it is nothing of the sort. If pygmies or Inuits were doing what the Israelis were doing, I doubt you would so indignant at my condemnation of them.

In my book, the Israelis do not get a free pass simply because they are Jews.

If anything is "odious", it is what they are doing to the Palestinians.

I view anything which castigates a person (ie a Jew) as being a Nazi, based solely on his being a member of that race as being objectively racist. That's what your OP did. It's a piece of (*)(*)(*)(*).

I can't believe from our long association on this board that you are being so pig headed because when challenged, instead of clarifying that you had expressed yourself in a woefully inappropriate way, you continue with this evil drivel.

And, make no mistake, evil is the best word to characterize your apparent conversion to Holocaust denial. If you think that what Israelis are doing today is remotely comparable to the Holocaust in essence or degree, then you have indeed crossed that line into Holocaust denial. If on the other hand you are looking for casual similarities between States at war in order to throw hurtful insults then you may be guilty of the lesser charge of reckless intellectual hooliganism.

As you choose to persist without clarification, expressing yourself in the same hamfisted way, then I can only conclude that you are with David Irving in your assessment of what actually happened in the middle of the twentieth century in Germany, Poland and other places.

Your accusation "if...you would..." about me and the way I argue is pathetic. It's lazy and without any foundation. If I compare anyone with Nazis I do so very carefully. To do otherwise is to defecate on the graves of those who were real victims of the Nazis. As you have done.

You don't meet any of the points I make but you just windily dismiss them. I had at least though that you had some interest in debate but it seems that you are only interested in uttering anti-semitic abuse against "joos". Your posts make the reader feel dirty. They are nasty, prejudiced, bigoted little rolls of faeces. They speak to barbarism and darkness. They cross a line.

You have joined a long tradition of grotesque perversion with this filth: Mosely's blackshirts marching through the East End, Petain's collaborators in France, and of course Hitlers stormtroopers. They have their successors today, all belittling the Holocaust by saying "it was just like all countries who had wars with their neighbours and committed a few excesses". You join that thuggish cabal with your posted lies. You join and are complcit in the race attacks and the barbarity perpetrated by today's Nazis who minimize and talk down the Holocaust as you do. These posts of yours are not only lies, but they are music to the ears of the successors of Hitler, Goebbels and Heydrich. They are an act of collaboration with the BNP, the Front National and all the other brave new Nazis who tell us "Hitler wasn't so bad, OK he went a bit too far sometimes, but that's life...he's the same as modern day Israel, we've learned our lesson".

My point is very clear - when you make a blanket comparison of a RACE with NAZIs then you should at the very least explain why this comparson is more than just "not giving then a free pass". When do I give the IDF a free pass? I have a record of attacking the Israeli state for its excesses. I suppose you find it easy to imagine a simplistic world of extremist Israeli nationalists, Mein Kampf tucked under their arms, ranked against the angels on your side.

Your "either you agree that Jews are Nazis or you are giving them a free pass" is utterly disgusting. As is your whole position on this one. I have regularly fought right wing turds who argue that the Left is a source of anti-semitism. I am losing that argument everytime I read a piece of filth like the posts on the subject that you post.

No paseran.

Originally Posted by Heroclitus

I view anything which castigates a person (ie a Jew) as being a Nazi, based solely on his being a member of that race as being objectively racist. That's what your OP did. It's a piece of (*)(*)(*)(*).

I can't believe from our long association on this board that you are being so pig headed because when challenged, instead of clarifying that you had expressed yourself in a woefully inappropriate way, you continue with this evil drivel.

And, make no mistake, evil is the best word to characterize your apparent conversion to Holocaust denial. If you think that what Israelis are doing today is remotely comparable to the Holocaust in essence or degree, then you have indeed crossed that line into Holocaust denial. If on the other hand you are looking for casual similarities between States at war in order to throw hurtful insults then you may be guilty of the lesser charge of reckless intellectual hooliganism.

As you choose to persist without clarification, expressing yourself in the same hamfisted way, then I can only conclude that you are with David Irving in your assessment of what actually happened in the middle of the twentieth century in Germany, Poland and other places.

Your accusation "if...you would..." about me and the way I argue is pathetic. It's lazy and without any foundation. If I compare anyone with Nazis I do so very carefully. To do otherwise is to defecate on the graves of those who were real victims of the Nazis. As you have done.

You don't meet any of the points I make but you just windily dismiss them. I had at least though that you had some interest in debate but it seems that you are only interested in uttering anti-semitic abuse against "joos". Your posts make the reader feel dirty. They are nasty, prejudiced, bigoted little rolls of faeces. They speak to barbarism and darkness. They cross a line.

You have joined a long tradition of grotesque perversion with this filth: Mosely's blackshirts marching through the East End, Petain's collaborators in France, and of course Hitlers stormtroopers. They have their successors today, all belittling the Holocaust by saying "it was just like all countries who had wars with their neighbours and committed a few excesses". You join that thuggish cabal with your posted lies. You join and are complcit in the race attacks and the barbarity perpetrated by today's Nazis who minimize and talk down the Holocaust as you do. These posts of yours are not only lies, but they are music to the ears of the successors of Hitler, Goebbels and Heydrich.

My point is very clear - when you make a blanket comparison of a RACE with NAZIs then you should at the very least explain why this comparson is more than just "not giving then a free pass". When do I give the IDF a free pass? I have a record of attacking the Israeli state for its excesses. I suppose you find it easy to imagine a simplistic world of extremist Israeli nationalists, Mein Kampf tucked under their arms, ranked against the angels on your side.

Your "either you agree that Jews are Nazis or you are giving them a free pass" is utterly disgusting. As is your whole position on this one. I have regularly fought right wing turds who argue that the Left is a source of anti-semitism. I am losing that argument everytime I read a piece of filth like the posts on the subject that you post.

No paseran.

You obviously have an emotional investment in anything that decries what are clear Israeli crimes against humanity that makes any rational discussion impossible.

Either that or you are just being mischievious.

Originally Posted by Awryly

I am not "describing an ideology".

I am describing the brutal and murderous confiscation of land the Palestinians own and the Israelis do not.

That is the new lebenstraum.

It's not a sexual fantasy. It's lebensraum. It means "living space".

Given that why not compare the Israelis with modern day China, creating lebensraum for the Han race in Xinjiang. Or with the British Empire, which created lebensraum for whites in America, Australia and New Zealand, with plenty of blood spilled in the process, or a hundred other expansionist states. These comparisons are much closer. Your comparison by its very nature, implies the same scale and essence as the whole Nazi terror. It is an anti-semitic analysis and the more you try and defend this disgusting position, the more I am convinced of the true essence of what you have posted.

The policy of Nazi lebensraum involved the murder of millions of slavs and Jews amd Rroma: over ten million people. That involved - HOW MANY FECKING TIMES DO I HAVE TO REPEAT IT? - gas vans, gas chambers, men women and children being shot as they jumped into open graves, hundreds of villages being wiped out with their populations being herded up and burned to death in churches, the deportation of millions from cities to their deaths, a policy of working people to death, the complete removal of the judicial process from a whole race just on racial grounds alone... get an education!

The comparison is lazy, juvenile and ignorant AT BEST. It is a de facto act of collaboration with modern day Nazism as an act of Holocaust denial belittling the scale and horror of the Holocaust. It was an explicitly racist attack on my Jewish friends and my Jewish family (note Iolo's post - he saw that), ascribing hateful motives and actions to Jews as a whole. It is probably the most disgusting thing I have read on here in months, given that it comes from someone who styles themsleves as a tolerant liberal. Well, the truth is out. And will not be forgotten.

Your comparison by its very nature, implies the same scale and essence as the whole Nazi terror.

Only because you want it to.

If it is any consolation to you, I concede the Israelis are not using gas chambers.

But they are confiscating land, putting wire around it, and shooting Palestinians who try to trangress on what was once theirs.

Originally Posted by Awryly

You obviously have an emotional investment in anything that decries what are clear Israeli crimes against humanity that makes any rational discussion impossible.

Either that or you are just being mischievious.

That's a lie. I have not posted one word here to defend Israel. I have attacked a piece of racist filth posted by you and repeated and defended over and over again. I have not said one thing to justify the disgraceful policy of Israel towards the West bank and Jewish settlements. I have however attacked a tissue of anti-semitic garbage that equates Jews with Nazis, posted by you in the title of this thread.

Attacking Israel is not anti-semitic. Pointing out that some extreme Israeli nationalists are neo nazis, is not anti-semitic. Even pointing out that some acts by a democracy in foresaking the rule of law in favour of colelctive punishment, as carried out by Israel, has parallels with the lack of respect for the law by totalitarian countries like Nazi Germany, is not anti semitic.

As for crimes against humanity, perhaps you would be prepared to define the crimes against humanity of the Israeli state, including a rigorous definition of what a crime against humanity is (if rigour is something you do, that is). I think Israel can be accused of one major crime against humanity and that is the enablement of the Christian militia in Lebanon to massacre refugees in Sabra and Shatila. In my opinion Sharon should be brought to justice for this act which he is personally guilty of. But this is not remotely on the same scale as the crimes of Nazi Germany.

Your posts are anti-semitic poisonous abuse of Jews. Your attempt to dismiss me as someone who never criticizes Israel and wants to give it a free pass is just a whopping great lie.

You have posted unambiguous anti-semitic filth. That's my problem. You don't even withdraw your characterizing of Jews (grammatically sonny that means ALL JEWS) as Nazis. It's so vile it makes me very angry.

Maybe I am just educated and understand what the Holocaust means. Your only defence here is that you don't. It's the only defence you have against an accusation of fascist collaboration. It's getting thinner and thinner, the more and more I put these arguments to you and you refuse to deal with them with your scornful dismissals of the challenges I make to you.

Originally Posted by Awryly

Only because you want it to.

If it is any consolation to you, I concede the Israelis are not using gas chambers.

But they are confiscating land, putting wire around it, and shooting Palestinians who try to trangress on what was once theirs.

Deal with the whole argument. This pathetic soundbyte responding by you just underlines the weakness of your position. I have laid the argument out over and over again.

A comparison which is so weak in scale is inappropriate. Hundreds of countries have done what you say. Why do you want to associate Jews (yes, you defined this as a race problem and haven't retracted that) doing this with the one country who did this and a hundredfold worse things besides?

Your whole country is based on stealing land (lebensraum) by forced agreements with indigenous peoples. I would say that Israelis are acting like New Zealanders and I would have a sounder comparison. Maybe they can steal an arab dance and insert it into their national sport as a cultural sop to make up for stealing the arabs land, like your countrymen did eh with the Maoris?

The motivation behind the choice of your comparison becomes clearer with every reply.

Originally Posted by Heroclitus

Deal with the whole argument. This pathetic soundbyte responding of you just underlines the weakness of your position. I have laid the argument out over and over again.

A comparison which is so weak in scale is inappropriate. Hundreds of countries have done what you say. Why do you want to associate Jews (yes, you defined this as a race problem and haven't retracted that) doing this with the one country who did this and a hundredfold worse things besides?

The answer becomes clearer with every reply.

Ask a Palestinian whether they think it is a "soundbite". Draw on comparisons, if you must, with countries that are civilised and not from the 19th century.

The Israelis are supposed to be civilised and living in a modern age. You deplore me for criticising them. You dismiss what they are doing as a frivolity. And you rage pointlessly against something I have not claimed.

But I reiterate. The Israelis are behaving like the Nazis of the 30s and 40s. Less extreme but different only in degree.

And give the Holocaust a rest. I deplore it as much as you do. But it has nothing to do with with this. Nor can it exonerate the Jews in Israel from their conduct towards the Palestinians today.

Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior

Not in this context, because the variables are not the same. The Nazis waged a war of aggression, enslaving and exterminating people around them.

By contrast, Jews are fighting a defensive war, against people who have expressed a desire to exterminate them.

It is naive to think the two situations are the same thing.

Israel is in offensive war.

Originally Posted by dwarrior

Those AskeNAZI Jews living up to thier name.

FACT: Germany only had 5000 Jews before the start of WW2.

FACT: Israel has not invaded anyone, as one cannot "invade" a non-existant place/nation.

FACT: The pro-jihadist liberals are far more closely related politically through their policies, to the policies of the NAZI party, than the Israeli government ever has been.

Originally Posted by Awryly

Ask a Palestinian whether they think it is a "soundbite". Draw on comparisons, if you must, with countries that are civilised and not from the 19th century.

The Israelis are supposed to be civilised and living in a modern age. You deplore me for criticising them. You dismiss what they are doing as a frivolity. And you rage pointlessly against something I have not claimed.

But I reiterate. The Israelis are behaving like the Nazis of the 30s and 40s. Less extreme but different only in degree.

And give the Holocaust a rest. I deplore it as much as you do. But it has nothing to do with with this. Nor can it exonerate the Jews in Israel from their conduct towards the Palestinians today.

Less extreme but different only in degree". You mean like the New Zealanders? Taking people's land and then trying to force inequitable peace treaties on them? Are New Zealanders also not less extreme but different only in degree? Aren't New Zealanders and their British forefathers not murdering land stealing scum as well? Where did your lebensraum come from? Isn't it less extreme but different only in degree. In fact, isn't what Israel is doing, hampered by Israeli courts, a large liberal section of their population and international institutions, not also less extreme and different in degree from the crimes committed against Polynesian peoples by your forebears? I would say so. Jews are becoming like New Zealanders, might be better. If I was wont to express myself in a racist way that is, which I am not.

Stop dodging this argument. You chose to smear all Jews as Nazis quite deliberately.

I've got your number. You didn't express yourself badly, as I had first thought. The title of the tread says it all. Its simple, explicit, uncomplicated racism. Jews are becoming Nazis. You said it exactly as you meant it. Jews are becoming Nazis. Sickening, poisonous bile.

Vile...vile....vile... even the Holocaust denial is there. You want to talk about Nazis and ignore the Holocaust. You really think that is appropriate? Is the Holocaust merely a detail - and an inconvenient one for you - that you don't want to discuss? What's the matter, will your comparison of Israel and Nazi Germany breakdown or will you reveal the full panopoly of Holocaust denial you have at your disposal? What are you afraid of?

The most despicable filth you can imagine.