When we invent our own morals, as secular mentality dictates, then we really have no stable moral compass to follow. Our focus stays on ourselves, and our desire for immediate gratification drives our decision-making. The void we feel never gets filled, no matter how much "stuff" we try to cram down it. That "stuff" can be products, money, sex, power, or anything we decide will satisfy our hunger.

Those placing high value on spiritual strength and growth, always seem to suffer less from the ME syndrome, and therefore feel either less of the "void," or feel that spritual forces fill it. This tends to reduce materialism and the need for immediate gratification, and keeps the temptations of "consumerism" under control.

First of all, we all invent our own morals to the extent that we choose what to believe. One could believe every letter of the Bible, but one would have chosen that as a belief system and so made ones own moral code. Second, while I have little doubt that there is some correlation between being moral and being religious, being secular does not "dictate" selfishness. My father is secular, yet you could find few people who are more morally strict with themselves than he is. JavaBlack and africanhope are far from selfish, and they are both secular as well. I think that basic ethics (except in psychopaths) exist in all of us a priori and that, while we need something to bring moral concepts to the surface of our minds, religion is only one of many tools with which to do so.

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"Some people complain about the system. The system is not good, so they can't do anything. It's an excuse. Freedom is in your heart." (Jin Xing)

No need for spiritual influence here, huh FOT? If we can successfully make our "own moral code," why bother with the Bible? Why bother pretending to worship anything other than ourselves? I think you said you are a Christian. Why?

Sorry I didn't read all the replies, I believe obsession over wealth and goods is a problem. I understand that it is wrong when people take possesions over their family and religion, however I don't think this has become that large an issue and never has been. The family has always been an essential part of any society and I agree it has degraded in modern culture , but not because of consumerism but rather because of over-acceptance of different behaviors and lifestyles.

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“Good leaders abhor wrongdoing of all kinds; sound leadership has a moral foundation.”

-Proverbs 16:12

First, I specifically typed that I "have little doubt that there is some correlation between being moral and being religious". Second, I wrote that every person, through free will, accepts and rejects moral beliefs and so makes their own morality. That in no way contradicts the belief that, if ones ethical conclusions are correct, the power to have the correct ideas comes from God. Third, I am a Christian based on experience. I have found that worshipping and praying to the Christian God makes me a better person. My conscience does define what "better" is, but my conscience also does not permit me to "worship myself" (and it never did even in my secular days).

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"Some people complain about the system. The system is not good, so they can't do anything. It's an excuse. Freedom is in your heart." (Jin Xing)

So, what is a Christian? And why would a Christian be different than a Jew?

I believe in the Nicene Creed and I attempt to follow both the Ten Commandments and the teachings of Christ. I am, therefore, a Christian, whether Fundamentalists think I am or not. In answer to your second question, followers of Judaism do not believe in the Nicene Creed.

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"Some people complain about the system. The system is not good, so they can't do anything. It's an excuse. Freedom is in your heart." (Jin Xing)

Well, I heard the marketplace interview and I felt a little cheated by the absence of a summary explaining how one would harness capitalism to fulfill peoples needs rather than their whims. Guess I'll have to read the book. Unfortunately, adequate clean water for everyone, functioning sanitation , health care and nutritious foods are expensive. Cell phones and radios are cheap. Most of us in the U.S. are employed providing unnecessary stuff to one another. If everyone stopped buying stuff how would we be employed?

I prefer to think of it the other way around. What if all the stuff we made could be easily turned into other stuff at the end of its useful life. What if all of our packaging and disposable materials were bio-nutrients? What if we made computers that contained useful materials which were NOT poisonous to the Chinese people who will eventually disassemble them? What if our toilet paper was just paper and not filled with bleach and other toxins. I could go on but the point is that we have to find a way of emmulating systems in the rainforest. Be wasteful and be fecund. Contributing to life, not poisoning it. This is the aspect of consumerism that is so disturbing: the extractive, wasteful, poisoning aspect. It does not have to be that way,

Anti-consumerists sound like the puritan preachers of plymouth plantation warning about the seven deadly sins. Maoists also have always decried "bourgeois" self-centeredness. Consumption is fun. What do people REALLY need beyond a tent, a bearskin, and a bowl of gruel? Tell ya what - sell what you have, and give to the poor. And live a life of meditation. Me, I wanna watch the superbowl on my big screen while scarfing down brewskis!

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Read this post quick before the mods delete it!

I've been called a "fundamentalist" (and much worse )by Liberals. I've also been called a "moderate" by fundamentalists. I'm not sure what either means, so I don't care what others call me. I'm not trying to judge you (using the bibical connotation of the verb "judge), I'm just trying to understand your seemingly contradictory view whether our morals are a matter of individual arbitrary choice no different from a brand of cigarette, or whether they are determined by Almighty God and compelled of us by the Holy Spirit.