I heard some guy say on the radio that if we lose the war in Iraq it is because of the people back home not supporting the effort.

This reminded me of some cons who still hold that we only lost Vietnam because of the people back home.

So I was thinking...
We all have jobs. Rake flips hamburgers, someone is an accountant, etc.
Ill bet JP5 is an awsome accountant or whatever it is she does and does the best that she can. We all do our jobs to the best of our ability and our success or failure is incumbant on us alone.

So why do soldiers get to pass the buck? It is their job to kill terrorists and defend the nation. If I tell JP5 I think accountants are crooks and are just glorified calculators and that I don't support them, is it my fault or hers if she ends up messing up a clients account? I think we would all agree it is her fault and her fault only, regardless of what other people think. (I assume JP5 rocks at her profession)

I rock the hell out of classroom and even though some uninformed moron might disagree, I go on rocking.

Soldiers need to accept responsibility. They can't blame a 60 year old women back home holding up a peace sign for their failure to quell a civil war. If you think you can stop the civil war, then go and freaking stop it, and quit blaming grandmas for your failures. Or maybe you can say to yourself "Gee I don't think anyone can stop a civil war, or buck up and tell your bosses what you do need to stop it. 1 million troops and 10,000 tanks? Tell your boss what YOU need to get YOUR job done, and lay off grandmas with peace signs.

This forum is rampant with people who think public education is worthless and that higher ed is full of liberalism. I don't cry about it and say I can't teach any longer because my feelings are hurt and I don't feel supported.

DO YOUR JOB. Complain to your boss if you don't have the tools you need, and quit blaming everyone else for your shortcomings.

Ixtellor

No.

If McDonald's sales slip, you dont blame the burger flipper. You blame the executive in charge of sales or marketing.

If Ford recalls a million cars, you dont blame the guy on the line. You blame the executive in charge of design or safety or whatever applies.

I am sure the guys on the ground ARE doing their best and the war would be quite different from what it is now if they were doing a half-ass job. I believe that we have the best military in the world, but the worst leadership possible.

Even a retard can crash the safest car in the world and kill himself in it.

__________________
America is a melting pot, the people at the bottom get burned while all the scum floats to the top.
- - - Charlie King

Here's another one...
If the boss of a party store decides to change the shift of his business... or if a CPA firm decides to move from individual clients to business clients...Is it said that the boss failed... or that the business failed. No. It's said that the business is adapting to changes in the economy and following a new direction. The market will decide whether or not it was a good move.
In the case of the military it's more like a corporation. Are the people who see disaster in a current tactic or endeavor supposed to stay silent at the board meetings. When it comes time to select the new CEO should they forget their thoughts on it and vote for the one who is most like the last one?

Essentially the argument is like arguing against timid stockholders. But if the timid stockholders are right... then it's better if we follow a new direction, is it not?
That's why the whole argument is a misnomer. It's an attempt to moralize it and basically a claim that we should focus on a task regardless of what it costs and what is to be gained... totally flies in the face of business strategy.

But since we are all board members... we have the right to push for our own ideas on what the direction should be. That's how it works.
No one can prove that Vietnam would be a great success if Americans hadn't collectively decided to pull out. They can only fantasize.

__________________
"Man lives in the sunlit world of that which he believes to be reality. But unseen by most is an underworld, a place that is just as real... but not as brightly lit... A DARK SIDE!"
-opening from Tales From the Darkside

How can a soldier fight effectively, when they're shackled by homeland bureaucracy? You've got traitors like Benedict Murtha spreading lies about them. You've got fat-cat politicians instructing our generals on how to wage a war, when they have no clue how to do so. Should the general tell him/her "no?" If he does, the politician will demand that he be replaced.

Blaming soldiers on not doing their jobs is naive.

I'm not sure if this is how things actually work.

If you know for a fact, please provide examples. I'd like to learn a bit more on this process.

Thanks.

__________________
America is a melting pot, the people at the bottom get burned while all the scum floats to the top.
- - - Charlie King

So if someone tells lies about you don't have to do your job?
Ahh the conservatives called me a crackpot liberal prof who preaches communism, I guess I will cry a little and quit teaching...

What are we doing today prof?
Just watch TV, I don't have the will to teach because someone told a lie about me.

Ixtellor

P.S. No one is telling the generals how to wage the war except their boss, the President of the United States. The rest are just giving opinions.

Sir: Soldiers, Marines, Sailors, Airman and Coasties are often placed in harm's way to defend our Constitution and protect your freedoms. Disparaging their efforts encourages the enemy they are fighting against.

It wasn't my decision to not send enough troops then or now. It wasn't my decision to not raise taxes to pay for every piece of equipment they need. It wasn't my decision to not increase the size of the Army so they get more leave.

If my saying, "the war looks bad, I don't think we can stop a civil war with so few troops" makes you feel bad. Then you need to toughen up. Don't blame the American people for having an opinion. Blame either yourself or your boss for failures.

Ixtellor

I don't think anyone is saying you don't have a right to voice your opinion. Criticize all you want. Just remember that your right to do so, was and is being bought and paid for by the blood and sweat of the U.S. Armed Forces.
As a veteran, I know it is very demoralizing to read and/or hear disparaging comments about the efforts. It does in some instances embolden the enemy. I don't think you can blame success or failure solely on public support and the media, but it does play a role.

Sir please tell the board here your credentials that allows such an expert opinion on how the war should've been waged? You seem to be an expert on matters of strategy and Military Science...or are you just another arm-chair General, Monday morning quarterback. With all due respenct, it is far easier to criticize the efforts of others without knowing or being part of what you are criticizing.