Hatred has to start from some where.

People would like to believe that terrorists are just radicals.
Another false excuse is that radial Muslims hate Americans just because America is trying to bring democracy and American style of "freedom" to the Middle East.

Let's reverse the scenarios for a minute.
Let's say that America was not this "Super Power" in the World.
Let's say Russia did start a war and America fell and Communism took over.
How many "Radical Americans" would take up arms and fight against commission on American soil?
Now maybe Americans would not go as far as suicide bombings but I'm sure they would set up "road side bombs" to take out Russian "occupying" American soil.

For the record, I do not support the actions terrorists take when women and children are killing by suicide bombers.

Now my question was if anyone has actually listened to the words of terrorists?

They are talking about Americans killing women and children in past and present wars.
Now American excuse their actions as part of friendly fire or "collateral damage."
I guess it makes them sleep better at night when you use words like those.

The problem is that, when a Muslim woman or child dies by the hands of America, it feeds the hatred that the terrorists feel for them.

How many Iraqi women and children died in the first wave of bombing at the start of this war?

It is those deaths that are feeding the hatred.
Another thing feeding the hatred is America "interfering" in Middle East Affairs.
People can spin "liberation" any way you want.
This war stated out as an "Invasion" to get rid of Saddam and find WMDs.
Now, it's an "Occupation."

Everyone in the Middle East saw America turned a blind eye when Saddam did those mass murders.
Everyone in the Middle East sees how America Favours Israel over Palestine.
Every president has tried to set up "Peace Talks" between Israel and Palestine BUT the fact is that America Favours Israel.
A true mediator does not take sides.

The bottom line is that the "Hatred for Americans" is not totally unfounded.
America is not the good guys in the white hats fighting for truth and justice around the world.

So, has anyone really listened to the words when a Terrorist leader sends out a video?
or do you simply pass it off as "unfounded" hatred?

America is not totally "Blameless" when it comes to people hating them around the world.

paul111,
You left out some important details, details of true Islamic faith.
first off, radical Islam does not exist, it is the same as Islamic faith
that is why no Islamic group in the world will publicly speak out
against what they call radical Islam. and Islam by it's own design
states that infidels have no human rights and must be destroyed
by force, and that Islam must be spread around the world.

Look what took place in Lebanon, which use to have many religions
but when Islam grew larger, they drove out all the other religions.
by force and by killings. Israel has 1000's of people who fled for
their life from Lennon, who can tell you their horror storys.

Thats what you left out.

__________________
If you appear to be an IDIOT, I will assume it's the liberal in you. GOD forgives you, But I don't.

Have you studies the Islam faith or are you simply basing your statement on some propaganda?
Did you study the Islam version of the Bible?
I have listened to gentle men and women of the Islam faith that do not agree with your statement above.
There are even Muslims within your own country that do not agree with your statement.
If your statement was true, why is the USA allowing Muslims to practice their faith on American soil?

Some religions around the world could say the exact same thing about "Christianity."
Look at the battles between Catholics and Protestants over the generations.
Look at the killings that Israel has done over the years and NOT always in the line of Defense.
Israel has killed women and children too.

So I asked the question again, has anyone actually listened to what the Muslim people have to say?

Some people can even twist the Christian Bible around and use verses that talk about killing of false prophets to mean that Christians should kill all the modern day false prophets.

proof-hunter has grouped everyone in the Islam faith into the same category as the radical terrorists or all of them want to take over the world by killing every other person on the face of the earth that does not practice the Islamic faith.

Maybe we should group all the Christians into the same groups as Jamestown or the Waco, Texas cult. Those people quotes the Christian Bible too so they must represent the entire Christian faith.
How about grouping and labeling all Germans are Nazis?

Do you see how "RACIST" it is to group all people together under one title.

Wanted: a Muslim Reformation
National Post (Canada)
Sept 26, 2003

No religion has a monopoly on violence. Christianity has the Spanish Inquisition and the bloody excesses of the Crusades...."

But it will Not do to take the Politically Correct course and Lump all Religions in the Same basket, at least not insofar as our own era is concerned. Christian civilization underwent a Reformation in the 16th century, embraced the Enlightenment with its intellectual and theological pluralism, separated Church from State and encouraged scholarship and democracy. Judaism has followed a similar process -- as have, more recently, the faiths of the far East. Islam, on the other hand, is still struggling with this transition. And if there is to be peace in the Middle East and an end to terror worldwide, Muslims must accept that their faith is overdue for a doctrinal overhaul...."


"....Christianity still has its fanatical, bigoted elements. But those Christians who advocate the slaughter of non-believers make up an almost imperceptibly tiny fraction of the faithful. Much is made of the intolerant pronouncements of high-profile evangelists. A few deranged anti-abortion snipers aside, however, this is just talk. Even terrorists that claim to be part of the Christian world-- such as Spain's Basque extremists and America's Timothy McVeigh-- typically do not operate under any sort of religious aegis.

By contrast, a large minority of the world's one billion Muslims still adhere to militant interpretations of their faith, including the Wahabi sect of Sunni Islam, centred in and spread by Saudi Arabia. These interpretations all embrace as a central tenet the duty of jihad -- which, despite whitewashing efforts in the West, continues to mean what it has meant since the 7th century: the slaughter or forced conversion of non-Muslim "infidels." With few exceptions -- such as old-school Palestinian terrorists who cling to Marxist rhetoric -- Muslim terrorist groups all explicitly take Islam as their inspiration. Osama bin Laden is a Hero to Hundreds of Millions of Muslims, and al-Qaeda continues to receive financing from a wide array of Muslim charities.
Christians kill. Jews kill. Hindus kill. But no other faith group on the planet has embraced random slaughter in anything approaching the manner of radicalized Muslims.

The mainstream Arabic media is shot through with the most extreme sort of Hatred...
"Muslim advocacy organizations in the West, including Canada's own Canadian Islamic Congress, typically reject the claim that there is a problem with contemporary Islam, preferring to lay the world's problems at the feet of Israel and U.S. foreign policy.

Indeed, any Critical Scrutiny of their Religion is decried as "Bigotry"..... But it is evident these commentators are putting pride of faith above Truth.
The celebrations in the Islamic world on Sept. 11, 2001...."

Original link expired, The full article can now be found here:


http://www.jewishtoronto.com/content...rticleID=85448 [/

Islam does not support terrorism, period. That is the truth. How many more "moderate" Muslims need to say this?

Islam teaches that to kill a single innocent human-being is as bad as killing all mankind and the Qur'an only allows violence when in self-defense. Where you got the idea that we want to rule the World, I dont know, but I assure you its not the truth.

Lebanon acted in self-defense against Israel's aggression. I have no quarrel with Israel but it is true that they attacked first. Can you blame the Lebanese? It's also very un-true that Muslims drove out all other religions from Lebanon; Christians aided Muslims in the defense of Lebanon and the Christian community within Lebanon is quite extensive.

__________________
“Capitalism cannot reform itself; it is doomed to self-destruction. No universal selfishness can bring social good to all.” —Dr. W.E.B. Du Bois

Proof-hunter seems to have a very "selective memory" when it comes to the Facts around the world.
When you tell him facts, he brushes them of as the writer being a week liberal posting "opinions."
His true colours are showing with every one of his posts.
I use to think Israel was this poor little country that everyone attacked "for no reason."
Watching Israel's random bombing of Lebanon last year, shed new light on the truth and the facts.
I've also listened to the words the terrorist leaders use to find the reasons they hate America.
The theme that keeps coming back is that America has killed Muslim women and children and interfered in Middle East internal affairs.
There is always a reason for hatred and racism.
The posters here that believe that all Muslims are potential terrorist are simply Racists.
Grouping an entire race or religion belief is like grouping all Americans as Bush Supporters or that All Americans think act and have the same beliefs as Bush.

Just because the Muslim faith is groups around the world does not make it a religion trying to take over the world.
Look at the Christian and Jewish religions. Those are spread all over the world.
The Christian faith says that everyone is going to Hell if they do not accept and believe in Jesus and the world's Saviour.
If the Muslim hater took the time to look into it, the Christian faith is spread over the world just as much as the Muslim faith and maybe more.
There have been radical murdering Christians throughout history.
That does not mean all Christian act or believe the same way.
Americans use to put all Japanese people on jail and camps during the world war. Even Japanese that were born in America.
History seems to be repeating itself.
Some radical Muslims terrorized the States on 9/11 so now all Muslims are the enemy.

The main religion is Iraq is still Muslim yet America is still apart of the civil war going on over their between Muslims.
How to the pro war advocates justify that?

So to all the racists here that hate Muslims, have you ever actually taken the time to talk to a Muslim or listen to a Muslim on TV that was not connected with terrorism?

My rough guess about 1/3 support, 1/3 condone, and maybe 1/3 want change.

There are NO significant demonstrations by Muslims against Terror in the West/against infidels, ONLY at home in Jordan, Morocco and Algeria.
No "muslims for America","UK" marches on Washington or London after 9/11 or 7/7. On the contary, UK polls of Muslims show surprising support or understanding for those acts.

You want see real muslim outrage? it's not against killing any or how many infidels, it's against abu Ghraib, a page of the Koran being flushed down the toilet, Cartoons in a Danish daily, etc. NOT against killing any non-muslims.


"self defense" would include the same Pretenses Mohammed used to wipe out everyone else on the Arabian Pensinsula and then beyond.
And of course there's the problem with who's "innocent".
Since the USA and UK attacked Afghanistan/Iraq are any US/UK citizens "innocent"? Any Israeli citizens at all "innocent"?
(Forgetting, Egypt's Copts, Indonesia's East Timorese, Christian and Animist Sudanese, and dozens more)

Just one of many Trite Apologist Fallcies and BS like "islam forbids suicide".
OOOPS! but [call it] Martyrdom and it's Glorious and the quickest way to Heaven.

Stunning ignorance.
"Lebanon" didn't act at all.
Lebanon allowed an Armed non-Government militia (Hizbollah/'Party of God') to assemble on their southern border whose purpose it is to wipe out Israel and the Jews. This despite world demands that they be disarmed years before.

What about you?
I think you should start with this Syrian-American doctor on al-Jazeera:

http://switch5.castup.net/frames/200...050wmv&ak=null

or if that's busy/stuck it's here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciOGS6r97oE


This reminds me of BORKAN'S ill-fated "proofs" or "Questions" strings, only this time by Westerners who buy it.
.

You simply poster to links about a debate in a foreign language with sub titles.
That does NOT answer my question.
Those links are just two sides to the same story.
You obviously have a point to make.
So lets cut out all your copy/paste from other people's opinions and tell us your own opinion "IN YOUR OWN WORDS!"
I've looked at your last few posts and you never put your own words together and take an original stand based on your own beliefs.
You are just are quoting other people.

What about me?
I have stated that I have listened to muslims and understand why the radicals hate the USA.

I have stated that there are always two sides to a story and not one side is 100% right and the other 100% wrong.

Few people here have stated that All Muslims are terrorists and want to take over the world.

I've stated that those people are Racists.
Hating a complete race or religion can never end with a peaceful outcome.

I have also shown the same radical views in the Jewish and Christian faiths.
There are radicals that believe in killings and justfy murders BUT that is NOT THE BELIEF of the majority of the jewish or Christian faith.

I have yet to read your own words on where you stand on issues.
Try posting 1 reply without rehashing someone else's words and try and put into your own words where you stand on these issues.
Can you actually put your own words down here without the copy/paste features on your computer?

YOU profered to "has anyone ever listened.."
I responded with that Very TV appearance!

Note the post Just above the/my response/Devastation of Shwarzwald's similar opinion top yours.
ALL my Own Words.

Do YOU have any response to that? Did you miss it?
Anything at all?
Or perhaps you would like to respond to the Facts in "Wanted a Muslim Reformation" about trying to make today's Islam equivalent with Christianity of Judaism since everyone Else's Words Also count, contrary to your empty discounting.
I'd be happy to rebutt the Fallacies in any article that agrees with you, but you can't do the same.

It's well more than "Radicals' that hate the USA.
Unless you want to make most Muslim Radicals-- or just Real Muslims.

Only a very tiny amount of Muslims are "Terrorists".
This is MeaningLess and a strawman argument.
Terrorists are just the Ugly tip of the Islamist/Fundamentalist Iceberg which include a Large amount of Muslims (see MY own words 1/3 x 3 above).

Again this is complete NONSENSE and absurd Moral equivalence. So UNequivalent quantitatively as to be a Lie.
As I've said scores of times on this board and elsewhere, perhaps 5% of Jews and Christians are Holy Book Literalists while perhaps 90% of Muslims are.
ie literalism/Fundamentalism.
I've debated against creationists on many boards, both Christian and Islamic.
I have yet to find a single Muslim NON-creationist, while I have many allies on Western boards/most in fact.