More guns...Lower Crime...Again!

**signcutter** · Sep 29 2011, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by JavaBlack

Why should felons or bovinophiliacs (I made that word up, I think) not be able to defend themselves?
Particularly non-violent ones.

If you were a bovino.. would you feel safe knowing that primates that want to copulate with you are now armed?

Felons already have shown a sociopathic bent and are not to be trusted with gus.. would you want bernie madoff running around with a gun?.. Even Chris Christie doesnt want that.. and he worked for the guy..

**penguin1634** · Sep 29 2011, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by Flag

US has higher crime rates than european countries that have strict gun laws.
You cant explain that.

Oh really...

Here is an article I found. I'll quote it below. It's a bit outdated, I'm looking for a newer source right now.

Here are Interpol 2001 crime statistics (rate per 100,000):

4161 – US
7736 – Germany
6941 – France
9927 – England and Wales

Thus the US has a substantially lower crime rate than the major European countries!

Here are the Interpol 1995 crime statistics (rate per 100,000):

5278 – US
8179 – Germany
6316 – France
7206 – England & Wales

Hence the trend in the US is towards a lower crime rate, while the trend in Europe (except Germany) is towards an increasing crime rate.

It is true that we (USA) have a high murder rate, mostly of criminals killing criminals, but a distressingly large number of people killing their spouses in anger, and the rate of “stranger killings” is rising.

However, the homicide rates have been dropping dramatically as we have been increasing penalties:

Homicide Rate/100,000 by Date in US:

1980 – 10.2
2000 – 5.5

**perdidochas** · Sep 29 2011, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by JavaBlack

Why should felons or bovinophiliacs (I made that word up, I think) not be able to defend themselves?
Particularly non-violent ones.

bovinophiliacs love cows. It would be ovinophiliacs for sheep.

**JavaBlack** · Sep 29 2011, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by signcutter

If you were a bovino.. would you feel safe knowing that primates that want to copulate with you are now armed?

Felons already have shown a sociopathic bent and are not to be trusted with gus.. would you want bernie madoff running around with a gun?.. Even Chris Christie doesnt want that.. and he worked for the guy..

Are you seriously afraid Bernie Madoff would shoot someone?
And somehow he would be deterred if the law said he couldn't have a gun?

**penguin1634** · Sep 29 2011, 10:54 AM

Here is another one, this one more recent. The UK has around 4 times the crime rate of the US.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...frica-U-S.html

**JIMV** · Sep 29 2011, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by Questerr

We had decreasing crime rates when we had stricter gun laws and less gun sales as well. How does this fit with your belief that increased gun sales means less crime?

Actually, we were not...Violent crime rose until about 1990 in every place with the exception of Florida where it had dropped for about 3 years after the 'Must Issue' concealed carry law passed. Look it up.

**JIMV** · Sep 29 2011, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by perdidochas

It shows that crime is not associated with gun sales. Hence, we should get rid of restrictions on guns, as they don't seem to do much of anything. If a law does nothing useful, it should be eliminated in the name of increased liberty.

In the late 90's the Reno/Clinton Justice dept along with a host of gun grab groups like the Joyce Foundation, commissioned the national Academy of sciences (another gun control advocacy group) to study every major gun control law on the books to determine its positive effect on violent crime. accidental death and suicide. This was all in anticipation of using the resulting study to push further gun control schemes like the Scary Looking Gun ban.

After almost 5 years they reported. The result...Not a single existing gun control law had any positive measurable effect on violent crime or accidents. The Scary Gun ban did nothing, gun free zones did nothing, registration schemes did nothing, etc, etc. The waiting period under Brady made a tiny, but measurable change in suicide but the change was within the margin of error.

The study used to be on line but for the last half decade is only available if you pay for it.

**JIMV** · Sep 29 2011, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by Wolverine

I am not convinced by "more gun less crime" being that there is not a correlation between crime and states with strict gun control and states with lax gun control. Not to say more gun control would be effective, just that the notion that an increase in firearms will reduce crime is unfounded.

Guns are not used enough for self-defense to prevent a notable number of crimes, and even less are used in crimes to contribute significantly to the number of crimes.

Guns =/= crime

What makes you think that is true...Kleck's study estimated 2.5 million incidents a year. The FBI estimated over 500,000 incidents a year. I can think of at least 3 occasions where mass shootings were stopped by civilians with guns.

**JIMV** · Sep 29 2011, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by Flag

US has higher crime rates than european countries that have strict gun laws.
You cant explain that.

Actually, one can. First you need to look at the trends in the EU...not good there while getting better every year here. Then you have to look at demographics. If one removes minorities from the crime statistics here we find we are a far less violent place than Europe. If you note Europe's changing demographics, you will see that their rising crime is in lockstep with their increasing 'diversity'...

It is not the guns that add to crime but simple demographics. I believe, in the USA, the benefits to society outweigh the down sides of diversity, but that would only be my opinion as long as we still have something approaching a color blind justice system, something increasingly uncertain under BoBo.