Thread: Government is immoral.

Originally Posted by penguin1634

If men were angels, there would be no government. However, we are evil, hate filled, and selfish at heart. We need government (and religion) to keep us in line. That's why anarchism will never work.

since men are evil why do we let men rule over us? are the ruling men better than the rest of us men?

Originally Posted by gamewell45

Government isn't immoral, its comprised of people; thus its the people who are immoral.

some people are indeed immoral, but your conclusion does not logically follow from your premise.

Originally Posted by penguin1634

Well, yeah, we have morals. It's the only thing keeping us from killing each other.

also self interest.. among other things.

Originally Posted by ModerateG

You're living in lalaland. The Wild West, while not really like the movies, wasn't heaven on earth and it had a freaky amount of problems. Idealizing a past based on a false picture of it is just stupid. And suggesting Somalia isn't one of the most dangerous places to live on this Earth is stupid too.

We have a freaky amount of problems now..

And as for Somalia.. did you even click on the link?

It was worse when their was government, it improved without government.

Read the link.

Originally Posted by Jack Ridley

You sure about that?

lol... yes. But in a forum like this, the inmates tend to run the asylum.

Originally Posted by Sonofodin

Instead of dismissing my entire post, address my points one by one. You just did a side sweep of everything I just posted.

Not at all.
You're new here, so I'll try to explain.
You came here to proselytize. Nobody is going to change your mind with logic or facts, so why waste bandwidth?
And no one is under any obligation to wallow through the minutia of your posts or engage in some endless circular argument with you.
I'm sure that some here will, but I'm not into that.
If you don't like a response that you get, move on or reply as you feel like.
If you have a lot of time on your hands, try the following thought experiment:
tell us exactly how things would work in this brave new world of yours.

For example, as you drive to work, who decides to stop or go at an intersection?
If you don't like people telling you what to do, you certainly won't like a stop sign telling you what to do.
Who will build and maintain those roads and pay for it? The local population?
What if someone doesn't want to pay their share? What do you do? Force them at gunpoint?

These are just some simple questions.
There are many more significant situations that would play out very differently if there was no controlling authority to intercede on the individual's behalf or manage essential activities.
I don't think that you have thought any of this out and examined the consequences of your proposed society.
In my opinion, it's a very immature, delusional idea, and I've already wasted more time than I want trying to be polite to the newbie.
Good luck to you with your attempts to create your perfect world.

Originally Posted by Surfer Joe

Not at all.
You're new here, so I'll try to explain.
You came here to proselytize. Nobody is going to change your mind with logic or facts, so why waste bandwidth?
And no one is under any obligation to wallow through the minutia of your posts or engage in some endless circular argument with you.
I'm sure that some here will, but I'm not into that.
If you don't like a response that you get, move on or reply as you feel like.
If you have a lot of time on your hands, try the following thought experiment:
tell us exactly how things would work in this brave new world of yours.

Proselytize? I thought this was a political forum...was I mistaken? As a matter of fact, a number of people agreed with me. This is a place to discuss and debate politics, if you think it's a waste of time talking to people with a different point of view, maybe you should leave the forum.

Originally Posted by Surfer Joe

For example, as you drive to work, who decides to stop or go at an intersection?
If you don't like people telling you what to do, you certainly won't like a stop sign telling you what to do.
Who will build and maintain those roads and pay for it? The local population?
What if someone doesn't want to pay their share? What do you do? Force them at gunpoint?

If you honestly think that roads must be built and maintained by the government, you lack even the slightest ounce of creativity.

Read this. That should answer all your questions.

Originally Posted by Surfer Joe

These are just some simple questions.
There are many more significant situations that would play out very differently if there was no controlling authority to intercede on the individual's behalf or manage essential activities.

What does this even mean? Be more specific and I'll answer your questions.

Originally Posted by Surfer Joe

I don't think that you have thought any of this out and examined the consequences of your proposed society.
In my opinion, it's a very immature, delusional idea, and I've already wasted more time than I want trying to be polite to the newbie.

It's very immature and delusional, yet you know nothing about it? You're going to dismiss my argument because I just joined this forum? That's what's immature.

Originally Posted by Surfer Joe

Good luck to you with your attempts to create your perfect world.

Who said it would be perfect? All I'm suggesting is that their are better ways to deal with social problems other than the use of brute force.

I would love someone to tell me how taxation is not theft How can you justify taking peoples money by force to spend it on something that they didn't ask for?

Government is not 'immoral' it is 'amoral'.

Originally Posted by Sonofodin

I would love someone to tell me how taxation is not theft How can you justify taking peoples money by force to spend it on something that they didn't ask for?

you can't own property man..