ALERT: The Anonymous Group - Anarchist Criminals

**MissJonelyn** · Oct 08 2011, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by daft punk

just out of interest, what qualification did you get in finance? Anyway, these places are all capitalist, and America helped shape them. For instance, America overthrew secular democracy in Iran. Explain how that helped womens rights. America backed the mudahideen and Taliban in Afghanistan, explain how that helped womens rights.

Explain your views on these before and after shots.

Afghanistan before American intervention

and after

Iran has never been capitalist. Ever. There has never been any form of Private Property Rights or Rule of Law. Iran has $10,000 GDP per capita, which doesn't even qualify it for an industrialized country let alone capitalist.

Rety? Y/N?

**MissJonelyn** · Oct 08 2011, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by daft punk

Actually it is mixed. They are trying to encourage foreign investment. But regardless of that, it is nothing like socialist.
NK is as close to socialism as a rotten egg is to a nice cake.

It's not a mixed economy. There are no market forces. Everything is centrally planned. There is no industry. The country doesn't even have a trading index. In what way are they trying to encourage foreign investment? A country needs a trading index in order to encourage such investment.

It doesn't matter in what type of Socialist Utopia you would have. North Korea is Socialist and no one denies it. The Economist Intelligence Unit and every other Freedom Index pretty much gives North Korea the lowest score labeling North Korea a "Socialist Republic."

stupid assumption

According to you. Why don't you ask Kim Jong-il why he doesn't want to release the crime rate statistics in his own country.

no it isnt.

Yes it is.

support that they claim that, and support that they dont have the best healthcare and lowest poverty.

Health care? That is easy. Do you want primary sources or do you want secondary?

Try and research their poverty rate. You won't find it. Why is that? Well I'll give you a common piece of knowledge: Communist Lie.

Russia had crime because it was a Stalinist state.

Russia had crime because he had price controls. This lead to plenty of Black Markets in the Soviet Union. As all Socialist are bad at economics.

Support that Smith described capitalism in such a way, ie that there is none now.

Research the Invisible Hand which is in his book 'The Wealth of Nations.' He described the nature of a Self Regulating Market which he talked about individuals who pursue their own interest unintentionally promoted the public welfare without actually wanting to at all. In order for people to make an income, someone has to produce something that another person wanted to buy. This pretty much describes the market economy we have today, but it's so congested with Government influence hindering innovation and creating artificial demand.

Does Capitalism exist today? Not in the way that Adam Smith wanted, but at least I acknowledge that it exist although in some cases you'll have to look hard to find it.

Your argument is nonsense. You equate me saying there has never been socialism with a right wing view that capitalism in practice is never pure capitalism. This is simplistic and meaningless. Stalin waged war on socialism.

It's not meaningless because at least I know there is Capitalism being practice. As long as a country has Private Property Rights and Rule of Law it's Capitalist. The type of Capitalism a country wants it's up to them. They can either have simple Capitalism or they can have Lassiez Faire which is what Adam Smith wanted. Lassiez Faire is pure Capitalism and it has never existed anywhere in the world. Ever. So I'm not the one being intellectually dishonest with myself like you are.

Do you see big business waging war on themselves, on trade, on markets? No. No civil war. No purges, no show trials, no gulags. They accept government handouts, sure, and they are laughing all the way to the bank while you are stuck on definitions.

Yes. Businesses do wage war on themselves. It's called "Corporatism." Capitalism allows businesses to work vigorously against each other for lower prices. This benefits consumers. It doesn't benefit businesses because they have to work too hard and in an essence some business owners hate capitalism. They are constantly using Government influence to erect trade barriers or to enact legislation which favors their business while keeping other businesses at bay.

So yes, businesses do wage war on themselves and which ever has the most advantages via Government usually wins.

I could write all day on how capitalism causes crime. As I said, capitalism by nature is inequality and if you have rich and poor, some of the poor are gonna get fed up and start stealing etc.

Same can be said about Socialism and Feudalism. That's why you had the Black Markets in Soviet Union.

The capitalists created the state to protect their property - prisons, laws, police and army, all there to defend the wealth of the rich.

The state was created to protect the individual. Ever read the Declaration of Independence? Property Rights gives you the right to do as you wish with your own property so long as you do not violate the property rights of others.

Of course capitalism itself is crime - from the colonial exploits of the past to neocolonialism,

Capitalism didn't exist until the 1800s.

from intellectual property rights meaning the third world dont get...

Blah, blah, blah. Irrelevant. More pontificating nonsense that would take more time to debunk that it would for you to regurgitate and I can't type more than 10,000 characters.

wrong. It is basic Marxism that you cant even start a socialist society until your economy is advanced enough to satisfy everybody's needs.

And that will never happen. Never. The moment Marxist realize this is the moment they'll most likely dump this farce called Marxism.

Once you get to that basic level of a socialist economy you would have a far more efficient economy so the only thing slowing production would be environmental concerns.

If there is no money and everyone is equal, what are you gonna steal if you can get stuff for free anyway?

I'll give you a little piece of advice: People always want more. Always. Give people whatever they need to satisfy their desires completely, and you'll create shortages. Give people an equal amount and you'll create problems. Either someone who is unsatisfied will go out to work for their own goods or they will go out and take it. Either way, when this happens the system as a whole will fail.

And there is a reason why we don't give away things for "free." There is also a reason why no one else does anything for "free." Where is the net benefit for someone who has to produce all these things things for "free?" What will incentivize them to keep doing what they are doing for no money? Nothing.

Whether you live in an economy with a commodity, fiat, or gift economy, people all have needs and there are always trade-offs. It is not money but the volume of goods and service which determine whether a country is poverty stricken or prosperous.

Yes it is, because the other approach, materialist, would say people commit crimes because of the environment they live in and their material circumstances.

And that's their opinion. It doesn't change the fact that Crime has been around longer than Capitalism and Socialism and neither is the cause of individual crime.

Marxists combine materialism with dialectics to provide a full analysis of the world.

And yet they are so bad at understanding the individual.

but this has nothing to do with socialism

Yes it was.

Stay away from the right wing text books and look at the world around you. There are terrible shortages of decent land and water for example.

You would even be able to learn about the basics of Supply and Demand from textbook written by John Maynard Keynes himself. The fact that it's a foreign concept to you just shows your abject economic illiteracy.

There are shortages where prices are not allowed to work. Africa, Soviet Union, Middle East. I'll about about supply and demand. If you let prices work, resources can be allocated to where demand is highest the most. It's a very simple concept to learn. Even Marx was able to pick it up easily.

There is a desperate need for green energy. We have global warming. Resources are finite, nothing is infinite, let alone the natural resources.

Name one resources which has never disappeared off the face of this Earth. Ever. I'll give you a month to come up with a real answer.

So what if the price goes so high something never gets used up? It might as well be if few can afford it.

Prices rise when goods are scarce and they fall when goods and abundant. People buy less not because they can't afford it but because they can't buy as much as they good before. It's no secret by people buy more at low prices and less at high prices.

Law of Supply and Demand.

Food used to take no oil and now it takes 1 calorie of fossil fuels to produce 1 calorie of food. Land is being degraded as well. And water is becoming scarce.

Really, water is becoming scarce? There is a reason why even with all this inflation we have been experiencing recently we have not seen water rise north of $1 dollar.

The value of a good is determined by the margin. It's determined by what you can do with one more unit of the good. Not by the nature of the good itself. A bottle of water isn't really worth a whole lot because we have a lot of water and one more isn't really going to add much to your satisfaction.

Capitalism developed computers, but will it provide water to people in Africa? Is there profit to be made? Or will they all have to drink dirty water?

America sends Billions of dollars in foreign aid. A third of it goes to African countries. Why is Africa still poor? Well Africa has lots of corruption. Africa has lots of dictators. The money and the resources gets into the hands of the Government offices and never sees the African people.

If you want Africa to lift themselves out of poverty give them Private Property Rights and establish a rule of law.