My problems with communsim are extensive. I was recently asked what I had against communism. I realized that I have not worked hard enough to become THE anti-communist here. So I would like to make it clear why I hate commies and encourage some civilized debate. I can't promise I will be too awfully friendly, but I will TRY to be civilized.

The Problems with Communism:
I realize there are some holes in it.

I. State Control of the Economy

The government must control the systems of production. That is an essential element of Communism. There are a huge number of problems with this. Problem number one is that the government will become overburdened. The government will be forced to raise taxes enormously to increase its growing size. This is in defiance of the communist prinicple of helping the people. It will take all of the people’s money. Also, when a state controls the economy, there is no competition among businesses, which encourages lower prices and higher quality. Also, a small group of people that decide what can and can’t be sold can make mistakes. How would they know what the people want? When they say that more cheese should be sold over bread, how are they sure that the people need more cheese? If they don’t, that means that there is a ton of cheese being produced that no one needs, while needed bread is growing smaller in number.

II. State Control of the People and lack of Democracy

Communism has little support of democracy, and views it only as a stepping stone to Socialism. There are also a number of problems with this. This defys a humans natural need to choose. If humanity had not needed to choose, why could we? And the fact that the people can not have a say is the one thing that will destroy a communist country (it is ironic that this is the same way it came about): revolution. People can not voice their dissatisfaction with a regime, cannot do anything about it except revolt against it. Democracy also will alow the people to make the coice of how they want to be ruled. It is the humane thing to do, allow people to chosse how they want to be ruled, not to have an unwanted regime forced on them.

III. Utopia: Not possible

Communism attempts to create a utopia, by elimination of classes. This is a completely ridiculous idea. The very idea of a utopia is ridiculous. If people are given power, there is going to be corruption. This is an unfortunate, but realistic, aspect of politics. And that corrupiton is going to destroy the idea of a whitehouse. And anyone given as much power as a communist dictator is going to abuse that power. Abusing that power is going to lead to abuse of the people; thereby, the destruction of a utopia. And if a leader gets into power and manages to put a country on the path towards a utopia, there will be a leader who will eventually bring it off of that path.

IV. Dictatoship of the Proletairiant

The idea of giving an entire group of people power over another, regardless of the ratio, is complealty ridiculous. I support rule of majority over minority, but not compleate control. This is basically saying that capitalists are a completely different species which must be wiped out; they are humans too. The peasents and workers are just as corruptible as capitalists. I would like to use the Cultural Revolution as an example. The red guards, as the proletairiant, were given compleate dictatorship over the capitalists. This led to the ruining of thousands of lives, many innocent, and killed millions. It completely destroyed China for a very long time. Any group of people given unchecked power over another group, no matter the ratio, is not ever a good idea.

__________________
"I hate Communism."-Me.
"I hate Fascism." -Me.
"You are Alive. So live." -Tomi Miyasaki
"Our logic is to be illogical. That is our advantage." -Captain James Kirk

Communism of the totalitarian variety is the most destructive ideological movement in human history. Marx advocated #3 and #4 without a clear plan for how they were to be achieved, which led to Lenin's tragic idea of a dictatorship of a vanguard party (and hence #1 and #2). Vanguard party communism has led to well over 100 million democides (most of them committed by Mao and Stalin). Lenin also killed millions in his brief reign.

In my opinion, Marx's most basic mistake was one also made not only by Nazis and fascists but also by nationalists, religious Fundamentalists and state socialists: He subordinated the individual to the group. Marx wrote:

"None of the supposed rights of man, therefore, go beyond the egoistic man, man as he is, as a member of civil society; that is, an individual separated from the community, withdrawn into himself, wholly preoccupied with his private interest and acting in accordance with his private caprice..."

"Liberty is, therefore, the right to do everything which does not harm others... It is a question of the liberty of man regarded as an isolated monad, withdrawn into himself."

"The right of property, is, therefore, the right to enjoy one's fortunes and dispose of it as he will; without regard for other men and independently of society... It leads every man to see in other men, not the realization, but rather the limitation of his own liberty."

Note that, to Marx, the individual is of no importance except with reference to the group. To be moral, Marx thought, an act must not be "independent" of "society" or be taken for any selfish- even constructively selfish- reasons. This is essentially to declare the individual to be of no value, and since groups consist of individuals, any group formed on Marxist principles consists of people with mutual contempt (this does not include anarcho-communists, who aren't Marxists). The individual has to be the basis of any humane ideology since what Malcolm X said about Blacks is true of everyone:

"We cannot think of being acceptable to others until we have first proven acceptable to ourselves."

__________________
"Some people complain about the system. The system is not good, so they can't do anything. It's an excuse. Freedom is in your heart." (Jin Xing)

I compleatly agree with your statement on individualism. Bravo!

But you did not state that Marx did, in fact, advocate control of the economy. I have my copy of the Manifesto right here:

"5. Centralization of credit IN THE HANDS OF THE STATE...

6. Centralization...of communication IN THE HANDS OF THE STATE

7. Extension of...the means of production OWNED BY THE STATE"

__________________
"I hate Communism."-Me.
"I hate Fascism." -Me.
"You are Alive. So live." -Tomi Miyasaki
"Our logic is to be illogical. That is our advantage." -Captain James Kirk

I agree....socialism/communism is an awful way to go about leading a nation.

History has proven this to us.

Too bad the U.S. under Dubya has become a very socialist nation.

__________________
"The marvel of all history is the patience with which men and women submit to burdens unnecessarily laid upon them by their governments"

--George Washington

"Never spend your money before you have earned it."

--Thomas Jefferson

"One man with courage is a majority."

--Thomas Jefferson

I wrote without knowing all of the facts. What I should have stated is that it was Lenin who created the concept of the vanguard party, and it is these vanguard parties that have committed the atrocities for which Communist regimes are infamous.

__________________
"Some people complain about the system. The system is not good, so they can't do anything. It's an excuse. Freedom is in your heart." (Jin Xing)

Actually Marx's number one flaw was identical to laissez faire capitalists...
He believed you could have an automatic economy that could take the place of government and essentially run on its own with no problems.
In addition he failed to predict a lot of things like the creation of unions and labor regulations, which helped make things easier for workers so they didn't revolt.
But what the hell? We're not all Nostradomus.

__________________
"It's never over... BOY!"
The Tall Man, Phantasm III

I sort of agree. I never said Capitalism worked PERFECTLY. Nothing ever will (Utiopia=Not possible). But Marx also made many more mistakes, listed above.

__________________
"I hate Communism."-Me.
"I hate Fascism." -Me.
"You are Alive. So live." -Tomi Miyasaki
"Our logic is to be illogical. That is our advantage." -Captain James Kirk

V. They make really crappy cars.


VI. Icky boring fashion sense when it comes to clothing.

Why isn't a country that is ruled by a religion considered an aspect of communism? To me it is a form of dictatorship and a very miserable one. Any country that force women to cover up in tents and kill anyone who does anything against the Koran certainly define a stunning lack of freedom.
When Russia had control of Afghanistan the women were able to dress as they wish. But when a religion defeated the godless Russians then the women had to cover up completely and couldn't even show their eyes in public but used a veiled screen inside the bukahs to see with. Also if the nasty Afghan men wanted the woman to do what Monica Lewinsky did for Bill Clinton then she sure would have to do it if she wanted to live. Women that said no to their husbands were taken into a soccer feel and made to kneel and then shot in the back of the head.
And the Islamic religion demand for it's believers to destroy all the infidels [people who don't believe in Islam] and make the world and Islamic UTOPIA.
Okay now you tell me why this ain't communist or yet something that is worse than communist. This explain to me well why Russia outlawed religion because it cause too many wars over who have the right religion formula and demand irrational domination. When Russia ruled over all the Soviet Bloc nations then they all got along fine or they would face the gulag. When Russia took their hands off of all the countries then they all started fighting and dividing the place up due to religion differences.

Religious Fundamentalism, like communism, is a form of collectivism and so is harmful to a nation. However, in terms of numbers killed, communism has resulted in far more deaths than any other ideology in history. Repression of opposing religions or of religion in general, while it has resulted in terrible mass murders (the worst being Yahya Khan's killing of Hindus), has not been responsible for the scale of horror caused by the establishment and maintenance of totalitarian states that dictate all aspects of life- religion or the lack thereof being only one of many.

__________________
"Some people complain about the system. The system is not good, so they can't do anything. It's an excuse. Freedom is in your heart." (Jin Xing)