But people can break the mold. Socialists exist. They think outside the box and know a better place for everyone can be achieved through selflessness. Selfish cons think all money is theres because they worked for it. There are people in Africa working twice as many hours as you for 1/20th of what you get paid!

And Sporklord i know i can't match your historical facts so i can't blag my way through this, so i'll give you a genuine answer. Communism to the best of my knowledge is the state owning all possessions (or something to that effect). Also i think that the communist party was just one side of communism. If someone executed all the Jews but had a communist system in place then surely the're not socialist?

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I'm basing this on Marxist theory, I haven't studied other theories of communism. Communism, is the stateless, and classless for of society. Everyone is happy, and equal... blah, blah, utopian. Socialism is the stepping stone to this, where the state regulates everything. The USSR was socialist, hence the name: Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

Communism is utopian, and socialism has been tried and failed. I believe social democracy to be a good form of government, but like all forms, it's not perfect.

For an explanation on communism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism

I personally believe that a socialist democracy is the way to go......look at how good Sweden is doing for Petes sake. And as to the evolution of political systems or what not, I think socialism can either turn into communism, a totalitarian state, or an anarchial state, depending on how the public reacts.

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I live in a social democracy, so I can say it's not perfect. Taxes are heavy. Very heavy. 40%... Like I said, it has its ups and downs. But I would hate to see this country turns into a socialist one.

[quote=Neonimbo";p="35656]I graduated in May 2003 with my BS in Chemistry. I had previous 2 years work experience in chemistry, and I could not find a job until October 2003. That is 7 months without a job and I wasn't being picky either. I was willing to move out of state, I would have taken anything after working at wal-mart that whole time, slaving away at minimum wage. Tell me their are jobs out there for those who want to work. Yeah, Wal-mart is always hiring, just like MacDonalds. When you have a degree, you shouldn't have to work at these places.

Just 40% percent? Crap, that's not too far from what I pay. At least you get some benefits from it. All of mine go to the special interest poster people...

The point is not how much they take out of your checks, the point is where the money goes and I too would be willing to sacrafice a few more dollars so long as I was guaranteed some benefits from it. For reference right now, I pay 33% in taxes. (*)(*)(*)(*) close to that 40% if you ask me. 1/3 as opposed to 1.2/3

You shouldn't need to increase taxes to provide this kind of system. The money is all there, they just need to redistribute it better. Stop spending so much money on stupid projects like the war on Iraq and put that money to better use.

That is 40% income tax, though it's progressive. Now add to that, living with a standard 22% VAT, 16% for food, 8% for public services. Everything is taxed to absurdity. Nothing, nothing is cheap in Finland.

Pinniped: How do you pay 40%? I presume you live in the States, so how is that even possible?

actually around 33% of my check goes bye-bye before I even see it...the govmint thinks you are rich if you make more than 30k...and if you add to that sales tax at over 7% here in California, well then looky there...we don't have the VATs and such but we have property taxes, etc...They tax the crap out of me because I am single, don't have dependents and don't own real estate, yet have a good job. There are probably whole trailer parks full of welfare mothers who are thanking me right now, as they light up a cigarette paid for by food stamps...at least the "average joe" gets some benefit over there, or do they?