Another pointless and implausible post from you and I am getting off of here and going swimming since this is my only day off. You don't write nothing and just drag what others write to your post and try to make something out of it but it come out as nothing as like this post above is. I am getting out there and go floating in the pool on a tube with my little Yorkie on my lap. Whatever the last post was suppose to mean then it escape me and have a good day Boogie.

while i strongly disagree with oilguy's op, i do think there are some underlying issues which are common to those who do not find success.
very often, it is bad luck ... the wrong womb, the wrong location to practice one's unique skills, medical misfortune, etc. however, too often the potential exists but is just not developed. here is where oily and i begin to converge in our thinking: sometimes one's failure/impoverishment is attributable to nothing other than a lack of ambition, or the lack of discipline that allows one to build toward success by hitting a series of singles rather than always swinging for the home run for the quick, easy victory. but i do think it is wrong to castigate all who are poor as being in that circumstance only because they made wrong choices; for many, possibly most, that is a wrong attribution. as has been said already, (almost) no one (other than religious orders) makes a conscious choice to remain impoverished.
identifying problems can be relatively easy; finding solutions requires heavy lifting.
we subsidize negative behaviors in many ways ... frequently from the misuse of that which was provided with good intent. we offer rent, food, medical - general living subsidies to unmarried women of low economic means who have children. we do that because our society recognizes a need to care for that child. but that also makes being an unmarried mother to now essentially be a compensated occupation, and eliminates the need to pursue self sufficiency through education, work, and/or self-employment. it eliminates the stigma of out of wedlock pregnancy. marriage is disincentivized as it must be avoided to continue to receive the subsidy (at full level). that the baby father cannot marry the mother or officially reside in the subsidized home does not mean he cannot stay there, alot. so, now the single guys have a means of support which does not require a job. and we increase the negative outcomes by increasing the amount of subsidy with the birth of each additional illegitimate child.
now we have children being raised by older children/young adults, who are not responsible enough to be self reliant. if they are the offspring of parents from the same circumstance then they are living the life they know. its a cycle of behavior in our society and i have found no mechanism that is being attempted to end it ... we are now into our third and fourth generations. by and large we learn to be a parent based on how our parents raised us as children. what chance does this youngest generation have to break out of the cycle of poverty where all they know to depend on for their future is whatever is sent in the form of a welfare check? little learning is required to cash a check so why value an education ... especially when attaining an education is so difficult to earn and there is no one in the childrens' lives explaining that what is most precious is also often the most hard won. but again, these kids are being raised by young adults who do not value education and parents who do not make sure their child attends a quality school, or has the necessary supplies, rest, nutrition and especially the follow-up to make sure the child is behaving and performing properly in school.
that child has few role models other than the thug on the corner selling crack, driving a pimped out ride while wearing the latest brand of fashionable shoes. possibly it is that newly rich rapper who engages in the abberant behavior he celebrates in his music. or maybe his role model is a professional athelete. what miniscule portion of that population is going to make it to the pros or hit it rich in the music industry? there is no one in that kid's life to explain the ways of success. seems like oily was lost too, until he became wise enough to ask a successful man to explain the keys to success. we need to find a way to reach these vulnerable kids to teach them to succeed. before we can do that we must convince them that the American dream IS within their reach, too. not sure that is happening very often these days.
justabubba [leaves with soapbox]

__________________
“Mayor Palin fails to have a firm grasp of something very simple: the truth.”

[Frontiersman editorial, 2/7/97]

Applause to you Justabubba and bring back your soapbox and preach the truth some more sometimes. I found no default in your speech as is massive in others and many of your quotes are the dire truth as like in many cases being born in the wrong womb is the reason for kind of life you are likely to live. It must be nice to be born from the womb of Barbara Bush and never have to want anything and can get anything that you want. Honestly people like Bush and Paris Hilton are already born set up well and there is no reason to strive or make their mark with the world. These kind of people can never understand why those born the opposite way just can't get out of the curse of poverty because they have no idea what in the heck poverty is.

Jerry... Your a troll... Find another thread to spread your fertilizer because frankly I am tired of smelling it...

Everyone on the entire forum knows what is going to be posted after reading your name... so you can save yourself a lot of time and key strokes and misspellings by just typing:

Ditto...
or
The Usual...

We will get the same message.

OG

You forgot "I hate Bush." That's huge.

Q: Why is the sky blue?
A: It should be green. George Bush made it blue.

Q: Why is water wet?
A: It used to be dry, but Demopublicans ruined it.

Now Oilguy you are the one who started all this fertilizing and it took 6 pages for us to get you to see that you are wrong about your assumptions on what you started this post about. It did bring about many interesting angles on why many are in the shape they are in and a lot of different understandings [of course you and Paris wouldn't understand it] from the many different responses. We endured smelling of your fertilizing and put up with your shallow arrogance while we tried to help you understand what you were unable to understand and withstood it and like I said the truth prevailed and the post can now pack up and diminish.
And Boogie woogie bugle boy from company Z if God didn't make little green apples then it wouldn't rain in Minneapolis in the summertime [it doesn't matter what I say to Boogie he is beyond understanding anyway].

Now Oilguy you are the one who started all this fertilizing and it took 6 pages for us to get you to see that you are wrong about your assumptions on what you started this post about. It did bring about many interesting angles on why many are in the shape they are in and a lot of different understandings [of course you and Paris wouldn't understand it] from the many different responses. We endured smelling of your fertilizing and put up with your shallow arrogance while we tried to help you understand what you were unable to understand and withstood it and like I said the truth prevailed and the post can now pack up and diminish.
And Boogie woogie bugle boy from company Z if God didn't make little green apples then it wouldn't rain in Minneapolis in the summertime [it doesn't matter what I say to Boogie he is beyond understanding anyway].

The Times had a good piece on this awhile back:

http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html.../index_03.html

From the graphic, a little over 10% of those in the lowest quintile end up in one of the 2 higher quintiles. A little over 75% of those in the top quintile remain in one of the upper 2 quintiles. This includes individuals such as those who see a drop in income because they retire and those who see an increase in income because they happened to be unemployed at the time of the first survey - meaning that class mobility is perhaps more limited than the study suggests. At the same time, the graphic only covers a 10-year period.

Still, using these numbers, it's not as if 90% of those who start out poor are bad decision-makers while 75% of those who are born into wealth are good decision-makers. It's extremely unlikely Paris Hilton will ever leave her quintile no matter how often she ends up in jail, for instance, while the poor generally have much greater obstacles to overcome. Under the right circumstances and with exceptional gifts, a small number of poor can indeed rise significantly among the ranks. Failure to do so, however, is certainly no indication of character, bad choices or work ethic.

The study also shows a higher degree of class mobility in European nations, which of course is no surprise given their stronger focus on removing class barriers. The U.S., though, has progressed significantly in 100 years in this area and we are at least better than many undeveloped countries.

__________________
See, free nations are peaceful nations. Free nations don't attack each other. Free nations don't develop weapons of mass destruction.

- G.W. Bush, 10/3/2003

3 things.

1) Oilguy = Jake ?
2) Rebellion, are you saying, or do you honestly believe, that being born into poverty does not contribute to them remaining in poverty?

3) After I made my last post, over a week ago, on this thread, the San Antonio Express news had a front page article about the kids who will be attending the poorest school in Texas. My two favorite quotes were

"I want to go to college, but my parent's won't let me"
(They had religious objections - J. Witnesses)

"I don't like my neighborhood, there are too many robbers"



Ixtellor

P.S. Angry white men are funny.

__________________
_______________________________________
George W. Bush "I don't think our troops ought to be used for what's called nation-building"

Blasphemy is a victimless crime.

I can appreciate your opinion and I agree with some parts of it... I will respond later when I have more time... But I do appreciate hearing from someone with some intelligence rather that the local junior high student. (Who, By the way, hates bush.)
Have a safe holiday weekend!