I have a question for the pro-war folks:

"What are you, personally, getting out of it?"

Why are you, personally, invested in this thing?

I mean, do you believe that "winning" is going to make you personally more secure? You know, your family, your house, your "way of life", whatever?

Or I mean, you know, you could be "invested", 'cause you're doing it "on behalf of your fellow man", or it could be "because it's in the US's best interests", or whatever -

But I'm asking something different -

What are you personally getting out of it?

Thoughts?

I wish you had phrased the question a little differently because I don't believe there is a "pro-war" faction and an "anti-war" faction. I think there is a full range of opinions. I for one think that the invasion of Iraq will go done as the most disastrous policy decision in history. I also feel that we must think carefully about what to do, now, that will lead to the best possible outcome for Iraqis. I have read that in civil war situations the minority population - in this case Sunnis- must have a third party than can provide security back-up. There must be some parity in strength for the two sides to negotiate in good faith. The U.S. upset the balance completely by siding with Shiites and empowering them. I am definitely not pro-war but I don't feel that the U.S. can completely abandon Iraq w/o some security mechanism for Sunnis and some strategy to help refugees.

I will answer for them, because it is obvious, and I think it was a silly question:
Safety.
The ability to go on living.
The freedom to not be the victim of a terrorist action.

Take you pick.

Because we are involved over there, we are safer here. That is what they "personally" get out of it.

Ixtellor

P.S. We are not safer as a result of the Iraq police action.

__________________
_______________________________________
George W. Bush "I don't think our troops ought to be used for what's called nation-building"

Blasphemy is a victimless crime.

For such a phillosophical person thats such a tasteless question when you think about it. War is the most serious of things, so to ask "what people are getting out of it" is like asking what the peodiphile got out of sexually abusing a child. Not that people who think we should stay in Iraq are in league with that vermon of course, i'm just making the point that the only true thing their getting out of it is the right to have a opinion and the right to use that opinion as a means of free speech, which is something any true American should be proud of. A true american wouldn't play devils advocate with a issue such as war.

I hear you, but you're really missing the point. The question isn't intended to offend. The question is intended to elicit serious consideration.

For instance, Ix said "safety". Okay - that's exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for. Ix thinks his personal safety is being improved because of this war. You know - that's fair enough - I'm not going to make any comments on anyone's opinion on this - I just wanna know how people look at this piece.

And maybe towards the end, I'll circle around and tell you "why" I asked in this particular way. I mean, it's a "government" question, right? Why do you pay taxes? What do you personally get out of it? Well - you know, government services, police protection, public education for my kids, yadda yadda - so I "benefit directly", kinda thing. I'm just wondering how people see (or "whether" they see) that they're "benefiting directly" from this war.

So, like, "safety" would be legitimate. That would be a "direct personal benefit". So, what about other things? Any other things you can think of?

What I'm getting out of it is the possibility of democracy spreading in the middle east, with all that implies for the good of the world, instead of the cancer of an islamic caliphate, beginning with a seed in iran, expanding to an annexed iraq, continuing with the take over of the gulf states, utlimately on to egypt, and followed by finlandized europe. I realize the disaster that this implies for the whole world, just as some earlier generations understood for the implications of a worldwide communist take over, and before that a worldwide fascist take over.

__________________
Blade: "more educated and literate people than Justabubba"

Justabubba: "that would include everyone"

http://politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=27847

You're getting a "possibility" out of it? Hmm.... Well okay - I mean, I fail to see how all that affects you "personally", but okay, I'll go along with it.

So, that's two.

Come on guys - so far we have safety, and a possibility of democracy.

What else? Come on people - JP? Duh2? Where's SS on this one?

I feel like initially, Iraq was a big threat because we didn't know what they were doing or planning. But now that we've established that there are no WMDs and Saddam is gone, it almost seems like it's just another campaign angle now. I mean, we aren't really making a ton of progress over there, people are dying everyday, and the administration doesn't have a plan for withdrawl. So, it seems that a war that at one point "could" be justified has turned into a political blunder. The race to see who can come up with "the best plan" is on. Frankly, I'm tired of hearing every candidate say that they have the answer. I don't think anyone can claim a direct personal benefit. In fact, I think we're all feeling the negative effects of the war... troop loss, higher gas prices, increased national debt... The list goes on.

__________________
-----------------------------------------------
Blind acceptance is a dangerous practice.

So you're kinda saying there's direct personal "expense" in addition to direct personal "benefit". Yep, I see that too.

Again, same as taxes, right? That's kinda my "model" for this question.

'Cause most people, when they pay taxes, consider that they're getting "something in return".

So, like, in Ix's case, that would be safety.

In Blade's case, I don't know how "tangible" that is, what he's talking about, but I'll go along with that, 'cause it's like, if you "perceive" that you're getting something, that's probably good enough for the purposes of this question. I mean, that really is the question - what do you perceive that you're actually getting out of this thing?

Blade wrote:
Really??? There's a possibility of democracy spreading in the middle east???

__________________
I've been informed....don't blame Bush, he's "not in control"
That must make him out of control