Thread: I have finally figured it out...

Originally Posted by sunnyside

Almost off topic, but there was a thread on that a while back. Inflation means that any year they don't raise the minimum wage, they are effectively lowering it. Lemmi see if I can find a chart somewhere for the inflation adjusted minimum wage. Here we are:



You can debate the up and downs of employment, because there are wars and bubbles and things going on that have massive impacts on the market. Also jumps in minimum wage have little effect on the job market as a whole, since most people are above the minimum wage anyway. However unemployment typically jumps when the the mimum wage is raised among those on it, and then the employment rate recovers as inflation lowers the rate.

Where things stalled out was in trying to find numbers of hours worked, which isn't represented so well by unemployment numbers. Many minimum wage jobs are the retail sort where management has great flexibility in how many hours they grant to their part time workers, because unlike an assembly line where you need everyone to make a given part, a grocery store can just have people wait longer in line or bag their own groceries.

There was also something of an unresolved values debate. Lets say you raise the minimum wage and total hours worked and employment of minimum wage workers get worse. However once fired these individuals would recieve government aid. So even if total wages go down, the extra government aid might make the total money recived by those previously on minimum wage go up. And they'd have more free time too. The question then is if, given those hypothetical circumstances, one would support the increase or not.

In 1955 the Federal minimum wage was $0.75. Seventy-Five cents. A item that cost $1.00 in 1955, today costs $8.59. How did ANYONE benefit?

Your chart shows EXACTLY THAT. 1950 the minimum wage was just under $6.00 in 2010 dollars, and WELL under $6.00 in 2010 in 2010 DOLLARS.

INFLATION will always overcome ANY minimum wage,,,,,,ALWAYS, without exception. And ALWAYS, without exception, causes a larger problem in the future.

That's liberalism in a nuttyshell. Fix yesterday's problem with MORE of the same today, and ignore tomorrow.

Originally Posted by Dan40

In 1955 the Federal minimum wage was $0.75. Seventy-Five cents. A item that cost $1.00 in 1955, today costs $8.59. How did ANYONE benefit?

Your chart shows EXACTLY THAT. 1950 the minimum wage was just under $6.00 in 2010 dollars, and WELL under $6.00 in 2010 in 2010 DOLLARS.

INFLATION will always overcome ANY minimum wage,,,,,,ALWAYS, without exception. And ALWAYS, without exception, causes a larger problem in the future.

That's liberalism in a nuttyshell. Fix yesterday's problem with MORE of the same today, and ignore tomorrow.

I doubt minimum wage is enough to dominate inflation, there aren't that many people on it, as they only make up about, well here lemmi check.

Ah. according to
http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2010.htm

Minimum wage workers only make up about 4% of the workforce. So I doubt they can drive inflation.

Rather I suspect that inflation is just something that happens, and politicans balance forcing people into unemployment or underemployment vs wages. The inflation adjusted amount seems to be "hunting" around $6.50 an hour.

Originally Posted by sunnyside

I doubt minimum wage is enough to dominate inflation, there aren't that many people on it, as they only make up about, well here lemmi check.

Ah. according to
http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2010.htm

Minimum wage workers only make up about 4% of the workforce. So I doubt they can drive inflation.

Rather I suspect that inflation is just something that happens, and politicans balance forcing people into unemployment or underemployment vs wages. The inflation adjusted amount seems to be "hunting" around $6.50 an hour.

My question was, How did minimum wages help anyone? And min. wage is not the major driver of inflation. I've never claimed it was. But it IS one of the inflationary factors. So are unions. So are govt regulations. So are govt taxes and fees. So are people's ridiculous abuse of their health insurance policies. And on and on.

Originally Posted by Hard-Driver

So you don't think the minimum wage is a regulatory constraint?

Absolutely.

It is a failure to depend on the market to determine labor rates.

That however does not mean that all regulation is equal, and further, that because somebody opposes some regulatory constraint that they oppose all of them. That is a conclusion you derived on your own to argue against it.

Anti-trust laws, monopoly laws, these are regulatory constraints too, but work to regulate manipulation of a competitive market. This type of regulation I support, the ones that work to preserve the market, not work against it.

Originally Posted by Dan40

My question was, How did minimum wages help anyone? And min. wage is not the major driver of inflation. I've never claimed it was. But it IS one of the inflationary factors. So are unions. So are govt regulations. So are govt taxes and fees. So are people's ridiculous abuse of their health insurance policies. And on and on.

They help people in the respect that if they weren't in place, corporate greed would have people working for 15 cents an hour. That's how. Profit would be king and people would be in total poverty everywhere. That's the corporate way. I know you knew that already.

Originally Posted by RtWngaFraud

They help people in the respect that if they weren't in place, corporate greed would have people working for 15 cents an hour. That's how. Profit would be king and people would be in total poverty everywhere. That's the corporate way. I know you knew that already.

When people made 15 cents an hour, a loaf of bread cost less than a nickle. And a house cost a few hundred. So its all relative. For instance if Italy was still using the Lira, a $4.95 US hamburger would cost 7636.48 ITL. To be on par today their minimum wage would have to be, 10,156.52 ITL per hour. Minimum wages just mean handling more currency and getting no more buying power.

Originally Posted by Dan40

When people made 15 cents an hour, a loaf of bread cost less than a nickle. And a house cost a few hundred. So its all relative. For instance if Italy was still using the Lira, a $4.95 US hamburger would cost 7636.48 ITL. To be on par today their minimum wage would have to be, 10,156.52 ITL per hour. Minimum wages just mean handling more currency and getting no more buying power.

There is some truth to the buying power angle but, make it legal for companies to pay people 15 cents an hour everywhere, and eventually, 15 cents an hour will be the standard. I'm sure hamburger will still cost an arm and a leg. Gas used to be 29 cents a gallon and minimum wage was $2.65 an hour. Now gas is what, $3.50? Do the math. Gas prices increased by a factor of of about 12. Minimum wage? About 3. You see any "inconsistencies" there?

Originally Posted by Random_Variable

Yes, clearly people who live in huts made out of sh!t and who just generally live like animals are "some of the most innovative people on this planet."

Why do you insist on typing silly things?

Way to miss the point. Well done. Let's dump you in a 'third world sh!thole', no credit card, no phone to call daddy for help and see how well you can function, while you watch the 'savages' innovate to survive.

Originally Posted by Dan40

My question was, How did minimum wages help anyone? And min. wage is not the major driver of inflation. I've never claimed it was. But it IS one of the inflationary factors. So are unions. So are govt regulations. So are govt taxes and fees. So are people's ridiculous abuse of their health insurance policies. And on and on.

Minimum wages stop the poor from being exploited and provides them with at least enough cash to feed, clothe and house themselves, however meagerly. That's helping. In England the minimum wage is around £6/hour, and is predominantly the province of the part-time worker. Get rid of the minimum wage and you open the door to exploitation of those least able to afford to be exploited-and don't think for a moment that employers wouldn't take advantage of carte blanche to pay as little as they can get away with.

Originally Posted by RtWngaFraud

There is some truth to the buying power angle but, make it legal for companies to pay people 15 cents an hour everywhere, and eventually, 15 cents an hour will be the standard. I'm sure hamburger will still cost an arm and a leg. Gas used to be 29 cents a gallon and minimum wage was $2.65 an hour. Now gas is what, $3.50? Do the math. Gas prices increased by a factor of of about 12. Minimum wage? About 3. You see any "inconsistencies" there?

I see that minimum wages didn't help anyone a bit compared to gas prices. And if minimum wages kept up with gas prices, people wouldn't be able to afford bread or milk. EVERYTHING IN LIFE, EVEN MOTHER'S LOVE, COMES WITH A PRICE. THERE WILL NEVER BE ANYTHING FOR FREE. Raise minimum wages and some lose jobs and everyone pays higher prices for everything. It is so exceedingly simple that even liberals should be able to see that even with your heads buried in the sand.

If I make $1.00 an hour and a car costs $1000. I have to work 1000 hours to buy a car. If my minimum wage is $6.00 and a car now costs $6,000. Where, when, why, and how, did I derive any benefit whatsoever? Because everything ELSE has also gone up the same relative amount. If milk cost .50 cents when I made $1.00 per hour and it now costs $3.00 when I'm making $6.00 an hour, I'm still working 30 minutes to buy milk, same as I did before. Unemployment, inflation, and an uncompetitive world wide market position is what the people SUFFER from higher minimum wages. Buying the votes of the terminally STUPID is the benefit that politicians get out of higher minimum wages.