Thread: Guide to creating a socialist utopia

Originally Posted by RedRepublic

No.

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"Outlaw all business models except workplace democracy." Did you or did you not include that in your plan?

That is force. You want the government to send people to prison if they don't practice workplace democracy.

Guide to creating a socialist utopia

Few questions:

What do you have against utopias?

Do you believe people should abandon all hope for a utopia?

Is there such a thing as a capitalist utopia?

Originally Posted by Brewskier

If "businesses with traditional power structures have withered away due to people choosing to switch to worker cooperatives for superior pay and working conditions", why would you have to "outlaw the non-democratic business model"? Do you not see the irony/hypocrisy in stripping people of the ability to democratically choose what you consider to be "the non-democratic" option? Or are these just fascist roots shining through your utopian fog? Should we kill a few people, too? You know, just to keep people voting the right way?

People don't need to vote the right way, it'll happen anyway naturally but government policies would speed things up. Where did I advocate killing or harming people?
Banning the non democratic business model is akin to banning a form of oppression.

Originally Posted by RedRepublic

You're not very good at trolling. I'm not even angry at you.
Socialism by definition has more freedom.

Right....an all powerful all controlling centralized nanny Statist government is all about Freedom isnt it.
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What choice do we have in your capitalist utopia? The choice between Wal-Mart and K-Mart? The choice between Exxon and Shell? C'mon, man, get ahold of yourself.

Originally Posted by RedRepublic

People don't need to vote the right way, it'll happen anyway naturally but government policies would speed things up. Where did I advocate killing or harming people?
Banning the non democratic business model is akin to banning a form of oppression.

I just find it highly ironic/hypocritical to your viewpoint that you would advocate for "democracy" and then ban something that someone could choose democratically. See the problem with pretending your way offers freedom when it really doesn't?

Originally Posted by Questerr

"Outlaw all business models except workplace democracy." Did you or did you not include that in your plan?

That is force. You want the government to send people to prison if they don't practice workplace democracy.

That part was about avoiding a resurgence in exploitation. It's a democratic system though, people would be free to vote and remove the law if they have the strange desire to be oppressed. I just wouldn't expect anyone to want to go back (except previously rich people) but if for any reason they did want to they have the right to try and repeal the law.

Originally Posted by RedRepublic

That part was about avoiding a resurgence in exploitation. It's a democratic system though, people would be free to vote and remove the law if they have the strange desire to be oppressed. I just wouldn't expect anyone to want to go back (except previously rich people) but if for any reason they did want to they have the right to try and repeal the law.

So if you don't think anyone would go back, there'd be no need to outlaw capitalist businesses, right?

Originally Posted by RedRepublic

That part was about avoiding a resurgence in exploitation. It's a democratic system though, people would be free to vote and remove the law if they have the strange desire to be oppressed. I just wouldn't expect anyone to want to go back (except previously rich people) but if for any reason they did want to they have the right to try and repeal the law.

So it would only be force against the minority?

I'm glad that you see that it involves force.

Originally Posted by Brewskier

I just find it highly ironic/hypocritical to your viewpoint that you would advocate for "democracy" and then ban something that someone could choose democratically. See the problem with pretending your way offers freedom when it really doesn't?

If enough people wanted it they could change the law to allow pedophilia. I don't want pedophilia allowed, so I support laws against it.
I wouldn't want capitalism allowed, so I would support laws against it - laws can be changed.