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Old 03-27-2008, 11:28 AM
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Default We Need to Get Smart About Marijuana

We need to get smart about marijuana

By RICK STEVES

As a parent helping two children navigate their teen years, and as a travel writer who has seen firsthand how Europe deals with its drug problem, I've thought a lot about U.S. drug policy -- particularly our criminalization of marijuana.

Europe, like the U.S., is dealing with a persistent drug-abuse problem. But unlike us, Europe, which treats drug abuse primarily as a public health issue rather than a criminal issue, measures the success of its drug policy in terms of pragmatic harm reduction.

Europeans seek a cure that isn't more costly than the problem. While the U.S. spends its tax dollars on police, courts and prisons, Europe fights drug abuse by funding doctors, counselors and clinics. European Union policymakers estimate that for each euro invested in drug education and counseling, they save 15 euros in police and health costs. Similar estimates have been made for U.S. health-based approaches by the Rand Corp. and others.

While Europeans are as firmly opposed to hard drugs as we are, the difference in how they approach marijuana is striking. Take the Netherlands, with its famously liberal marijuana laws. On my last trip to Amsterdam, I visited a "coffee shop" -- a cafe that openly and legally sells marijuana to people over 18. I sat and observed the very local, almost quaint scene: Neighbors were chatting. An older couple (who apparently didn't enjoy the trendy ambience) parked their bikes and dropped in for a baggie to go. An underage customer was shooed away. Then a police officer showed up -- but only to post a warning about the latest danger from chemical drugs on the streets.

Some concerned U.S. parents are comforted by the illusion of control created by our complete prohibition of marijuana. But the policy seems to be backfiring: Their kids say it's easier to buy marijuana than tobacco or alcohol. (You don't get carded when you buy something illegally.) Meanwhile, Dutch parents say their approach not only protects their younger children, but also helps insulate teens over 18 from street pushers trying to get them hooked on more addictive (and profitable) hard drugs.

After a decade of regulating marijuana, Dutch anti-drug abuse professionals agree there has been no significant increase in pot smoking among young people, and that overall cannabis use has increased only slightly. European and U.S. government statistics show per-capita consumption of marijuana for most of Europe (including the Netherlands) is about half that of the U.S., despite the criminal consequences facing American pot smokers.

When it comes to marijuana, European leaders understand that a society must choose: Tolerate alternative lifestyles or build more prisons. They've made their choice. We're still building more prisons.

Rest of Article Here
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 03-27-2008, 11:45 AM
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Oh God here's yet ANOTHER screed advocating following a continent that just last century managed to kick off two world wars...

Look kids, The only way to properly use the Europe is to look at what they're doing and do the opposite. In 20 years the EU will be a Islamic theocracy.

Pot is a curse which effects failing cultures... It comes part and parcel with other deviant behaviors; those clambering for the legalization of dope simply can't come to grips with their own failings, so to rationalize it, they curse society instead of dealing with their own shortcomings...

Here's a clue, don't want to go to jail... DON'T GET BUSTED! The best way to NOT GET BUSTED FOR ANYTHING YOU'RE SCREWING UP is to NOT SMOKE POT.

Grab a clue and stop making excuses.
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Old 03-27-2008, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Publius Infinitum View Post
Oh God here's yet ANOTHER screed advocating following a continent that just last century managed to kick off two world wars...
No, the article simply acknowledges that the countries that have legal marijuana are not collapsing and are doing just fine.

Quote:
Look kids, The only way to properly use the Europe is to look at what they're doing and do the opposite. In 20 years the EU will be a Islamic theocracy.
Please provide proof and evidence to support this claim.


Quote:
Pot is a curse which effects failing cultures...
Not so: http://www.jackherer.com/index.html
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Old 03-27-2008, 01:01 PM
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The last time I checked, marijuana was not legal in Amsterdam.
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Old 03-27-2008, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Publius Infinitum View Post
Oh God here's yet ANOTHER screed advocating following a continent that just last century managed to kick off two world wars...

Look kids, The only way to properly use the Europe is to look at what they're doing and do the opposite. In 20 years the EU will be a Islamic theocracy.

Pot is a curse which effects failing cultures... It comes part and parcel with other deviant behaviors; those clambering for the legalization of dope simply can't come to grips with their own failings, so to rationalize it, they curse society instead of dealing with their own shortcomings...

Here's a clue, don't want to go to jail... DON'T GET BUSTED! The best way to NOT GET BUSTED FOR ANYTHING YOU'RE SCREWING UP is to NOT SMOKE POT.

Grab a clue and stop making excuses.


Pubi your posts really are schizophrenic! One thread you advocate individual freedom, and talk about that collective being dangerous! Then 10 minutes later, you advocate jailing those who spread an STD! Now one more chance to advocate for individual freedom, and you fail! All you talk about is advocating freedom, and yet it seems you are against freedom on every issue!
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Old 03-27-2008, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Truth-Bringer View Post
No, the article simply acknowledges that the countries that have legal marijuana are not collapsing and are doing just fine.
Says who, Pot-Heads? LMNAO... Oh GOD that's precious...



Quote:
Please provide proof and evidence to support this claim.
"Proof and evidence?" LOL... "Roll up that JOINT my friend... pass it over to me... then roll another one, just like the other one... this time without the seeds..."

I've made the argument many times... *insult removed*. Just sit back and enjoy the show *removed personal insult*.



ROFLMNAO... you guys HAVE to check out the site *insult removed* sourced... Te only thing he hasn't managed to do which HAS to be coming any second is to break down the whole litanny explaining the virtues of hemp... then there's the whole government can't tax what grows naturally...

The only thing positive about smoking dope is it slows down the idiots that do it... and I think it does get a bad wrap from time to time. I once heard a news report discussing a recent bank robbery wherein it was 'learned' that the robbers were high on pot... which I KNEW was BS from the jump!~

The bank robbing pot heads are going to rob the bank TOMORROW! For SURE this time, man...

Last edited by catzmeow; 03-27-2008 at 03:44 PM. Reason: Please stick to the topic and avoid personal insults.
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Old 03-27-2008, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Publius Infinitum View Post
Says who, Pot-Heads? LMNAO... Oh GOD that's precious...





"Proof and evidence?" LOL... "Roll up that JOINT my friend... pass it over to me... then roll another one, just like the other one... this time without the seeds..."

I've made the argument many times... I'm not inclined to convince of anything. Just sit back and enjoy the show****.





ROFLMNAO... you guys HAVE to check out the site, **** sourced... Te only thing he hasn't managed to do which HAS to be coming any second is to break down the whole litanny explaining the virtues of hemp... then there's the whole government can't tax what grows naturally...

The only thing positive about smoking dope is it slows down the idiots that do it... and I think it does get a bad wrap from time to time. I once heard a news report discussing a recent bank robbery wherein it was 'learned' that the robbers were high on pot... which I KNEW was BS from the jump!~

The bank robbing pot heads are going to rob the bank TOMORROW! For SURE this time, man...

I have never done any drugs in my life! And I realize marijuana should be legalized! The fact that drugs are illegal is the cause of more crime than anything in this country! Legalizing drugs, takes it out of the black market, and would severely minimize drug related crime!
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Last edited by catzmeow; 03-27-2008 at 03:45 PM. Reason: continuity
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Old 03-27-2008, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by frodly View Post
I have never done any drugs in my life! And I realize marijuana should be legalized! The fact that drugs are illegal is the cause of more crime than anything in this country! Legalizing drugs, takes it out of the black market, and would severely minimize drug related crime!
Not so.

The reason many crimes are committed for drugs is because drug addicts are so consumed and incapacitated with their drug addiction that they can't [and don't want to] hold down a job.

Crime is the only way to get their fix. Legalizing drugs won't change that.


Also, legalizing drugs won't necessarily eliminate the black market. I can think of a lot of reasons why this would be.
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Old 03-27-2008, 03:19 PM
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Yep. Legalize it. That simple folks.

You can't arrest for me for doing anything to my own body. It's called freedom. I'm not hurting anyone else. It's a stupid law that fills up the prisons and is a waste of billions of dollars in this War on Drugs (among the many War on This or War on That wastes). I don't smoke pot. But I'm high on individual freedom and maximum liberty.

Didn't we learn anything from when we tried to prohibit alcohol? Of course not, we have amnesia with regards to history.

Last edited by BigRed; 03-27-2008 at 03:20 PM.
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Old 03-27-2008, 03:28 PM
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Yep. Legalize it. That simple folks.

You can't arrest for me for doing anything to my own body. It's called freedom. I'm not hurting anyone else. It's a stupid law that fills up the prisons and is a waste of billions of dollars in this War on Drugs (among the many War on This or War on That wastes). I don't smoke pot. But I'm high on individual freedom and maximum liberty.

Didn't we learn anything from when we tried to prohibit alcohol? Of course not, we have amnesia with regards to history.
I have no problem with legalizing all drugs and narcotics as long drug users are not allowed to use public health care for the problems they incur through their stupid decision to ruin their lives and their bodies and as long as they stop committing crimes.

Until then, it's not a private decision and society has every right to determine that certain drugs remain illegal and/or controlled.
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