I've made no such assumption sir... If you're referring to God as somebody, then this is where you're mistaken. God is not human... God is however natural; existing in scope far beyond the mind of human beings to comprehend, at least to this point. As such people envision God to be some old white bearded guy floating in the sky...

I don't pretend to know what God is... I simply know he's there and before you ask, it's not for me to prove it to you... He's there I know it... you know and everyone on earth knows it; some simply reject his authority and the only way to do that is to deny he exist. It's a juicy rationalization of the weaker intellect. It's analogous to REALLY wanting to fly like a bird, absent contraption and denying gravity exists; rejecting all explanations of it by 'the believers.' When they toss themselves over the edge, gravity was right there proving its existence, even as it cursed in denials all the way to the ground.

In short, you not believing God exist has no bearing on his existence.

as to what I assume... I assume that your rights were given to you by the same power that gave you your life; the same with right.

True... Humans have no means to transfer natural, God given rights...

The notion that you can be moral without God is absurd on its face... No one is moral, all humans are immoral, that is the one consistent human trait and the very reason for Christ's existence...

You're as subject to the 7 deadly sins or human weaknesses as anyone else, you simply reject the authority of God to hold you accountable for having succumbed to them...

What you call your natural rights are in your own mind rights which you 'feel' you possess by right of birth... the problem is that you're human and when the rubber hits the road, you lack the strength, because you lack the authority, to enforce them. You'll fold when the pressure is on, because you will be met with superior power... you'll recognize your life as ending and to avoid that, you'll capitulate and succumb once again to the aforementioned human frailties.

You see friend, my Rights are provided to me by the highest authority; they are not subject to interpretation of others, they are not subject to usurpation; they are not negotiable nor transferable; they come with sacred responsibility, a duty, that they will be defended which comes with the power of judgment that those who violate them forfeit their own, which grants me power in right to destroy them; set in valid moral justification, that they have forfeited their own rights by virtue of having violated my own.

At whatever point this life expires, I will leave this world with my right in tact; even as I entered it; whole and sovereign.

Comparing the existance of God to the existance of gravity is like comparing apples to Martians.

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Catz: "And, the ever-sage Volvo Driver:"

That is your opinion. How can I, someone that neglects a "God" and religion all together, therefore be moral to an higher extent than even some religious people?

You are making an assumption that I nor anyone else will fight for their natural rights if it ever came to it. People have been fighting for their natural rights as long as humanity's natural rights have been infringed upon.

That is my understanding of human rights as well.

So in effect what you're saying is you lack the intellectual means to consider the issue.

Concession duly noted and summarily accepted.

Friends... this is a leftist and that is mighty tall thinking for a leftist... it's about all you'll get out of them.

Is it? Well lets see, itsa force which is readily observable in its function but not visible... one which is constantly being rejected with the ramifications thereof being recorded time and time again, with people standing in line all over the world to reject it again and again...

ROFL... man you people are all over it, aren't ya?

The difference is you are giving god the ability to make decisions, and change its mind, where gravity is nothing more then a force that can't choose to act in any way other than as it does.

And you could do me the honor of responding to my post, unless you want to condemn yourself as you condemned others:

"So in effect what you're saying is you lack the intellectual means to consider the issue."

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True knowledge exists in being aware of what you don't know.

Well it's also my opinion that it's hot on the sun... the answer is you can't and you aren't... You're just as sinful as every other person on this earth, you simply reject the reality of God and his grace, which would otherwise save you from your inevitably sinful self.

I am making no such assumption sir, I am stating as a fact that you will fold like a two dollar tent when your life is threatened... This because you do not believe that you have rights... you say you do, but your belief is as thin as your shadow. You will ultimately fold on the lack of authority inherent in your rights... To you this life is all there is and you will do whatever it takes to save your precious life.

This in contrast to those that believe that their rights are founded on divine authority, resultant from God's gift of life; that they've a sacred duty to preserve that right, that life, from powers of usurpation... they will fight to the death, in the certain knowledge that their fighting for a power far higher than the offending power, a power which will ultimately see their struggle through to victory...

Ahh so the right to life is a function of the ether... A rendering of the mind? Well that IS a powerful authority you have there. I bet you'd go to the end of the street to defend it.

Sadly, for you and your argument, the OP came to this issue when it merely found that the vast majority of the population, along with the government disagreed and decided that YOU, the lowly atheist were persona non grata... fit only for summary execution whereever you were found...

FYI: Without regard to how you define it, "Rights" are a result of power... In that it is power that can defend that right. Whether or not you believe in God, as a finite being, you are subject to his whim and there is absolutely NOTHING you can do to escape his power or his authority; period. Thus God is the final authority...

This is the basis on which Rights endowed by God are the only true Rights... God grants you one right: the right to life; which by extension and through one's proper maintenance of that right one is entitled to fulfillment of that life to the extent that is possible given their means... but all are rightfully entitled to that rightful life equally.

As an atheist you feel very strongly that you are the ultimate power and that the sum of yous.... the collective, the State, is thus the ultimate authority and it is here that you are dead wrong. Humanity has much to say about what government power decrees, it's whimsy... As government is possessed by humanity, it can be destroyed and created anew. Such is not the case with God, now is it?

This is why the Opening Premise is designed the way it is; as there is no greater threat to liberty, to that rightful life than that represented by the atheist left...

This forum is rife with the Godless who claim that rights and the life relevant to it (as is the case with everything other issue to which they respond) is relative to the whim of the majority, the decree of the state and are in effect whatever the state and by extension the popular majority, says they are... That is until they find themselves facing a State which declares their life as being without rights.

Here they become flustered; their thoughts cluttered; they can't square their most closely held feelings, spewed over thousands of pages of dogmatic screeds wherein they've enlightened the world of how their opposition has no right to force their religion upon them... a religion which has brought to the world that greatest of all gifts: the equitable right to life... The OP presents a world which finally, at long last accepts their argument, accepts their position and in having done so finds the first order of business is to terminate the troublesome atheist... after all, with no worry of final accountability by the Diety... there is no principle which provides that we should have to listen to the chronic belly aching of these blowhards...

Thus, that greatest of all power, the state... backed up by a popular majority has rejected them... it seeks their destruction, in finality... and what is their response? They reject the scenario, one which has played itself out throughout the Godless left resulting in hundreds of millions of innocents being murdere; with the only distinction being that it was the atheist doing the morally unjustifiable killing...

Friends, this is merely one example where these people fall short... but in every issue, at every level, the same intellectual flaws are present. Without exception, not a single issue every treated by an atheist mind has ever found itself summed to a valid conclusion.

The simple fact is: God grants you life and its your sacred duty to protect that life and to not use it to the detriment of another... No man and no power created of man can strip you of that right and you are duty bound, on the authority of almighty God to destroy any power which tries to do so.

Do whuh? I'm giving God...? Sport I'm not giving God anything but unbridled devotion and obedience...

To the best of my knowledge sport I've responded to your every screed. And you're entitled to project any absurdity you like... I've no problem with any of it. Where I find merit I'll adhere and where I find idiocy I'll laugh in your face... This isn't long division; it's pretty easy stuff.

Which of course assumes there is nothing beyond god, that would make THAT the final authority. And also rests authority on the power to control, something you only believe in only to the extent that that power is god. Rather bias in my opinion.
Says who? You? So are you proclaiming yourself a prophet, speaking to and of God? How do you know god wasn’t lying? Maybe he finds all this worshiping and obedience to be rather funny and entertaining, and will get an even bigger laugh when he casts all of the bible thumpers down to hell. You don’t know the motivations or nature of god, so don’t but words in God’s mouth.
What’s your point? Government is merely the means to and end, not and end. And just because you don’t like something, that doesn’t make it untrue. It is the collective interest, the very purpose for joining together into society in the first place, that establishes the final authority under this view, not the whimsy government that does a crappy job trying to enforce it.
Look closely at what you just said, Sport. There is no greater threat to liberty, or in other words the freedom to act as you will, than that represented by the atheist left… so being obedient to the “final authority” is not, in absolute terms, a forfeit of all liberty? You are answering only to god in everything you do, that is by definition devoid of any liberty.
This is not a hard concept, sport. We’ve gone over this many times. The state is not the final authority on the rights. If they say we have no rights, then they are defeating the very purpose they were put together. The people have the right to destroy that such state and replace it with another that does fulfill the purposes of the social contract.
Lol, again, says who? The bible is just a book. Certainly God is free to do and give/take away whatever rights whatever rights he wants whenever he wants to. And your religion is just one among many that does not believe in equal rights to life. You can proclaim your believe in your religion all you want, but you have given no reason why the rest of us should take your religion over any other.
At this point, the arguments are getting rather repetitive. Again, the state is not the final authority, even without god. The principle you say doesn’t exist exists in social contract and the veil of ignorance. Under this veil of ignorance, not even the majority has full power.
No offence, but I’m not seeing many of these friends you keep talking to, I’m starting to think they are imaginary. Kind of like these god given rights you keep talking about.
And again, says who. You don’t know god any better than I do.

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True knowledge exists in being aware of what you don't know.

They're God's laws because they serve justice perfectly, through their perfect reasoning... they are equitable serving bedrock principle and as such justice.

I didn't miss your point sport, I refuted it. God's law is found throughout the framing documents of the US, from the principle established in the US Declaration of Indepenence to the founding Constitution, through the Bill of Rights amending such... God's law is every law which sits upon bedrock principle and serves all men equally... Which is why Roe is not God's law, it is an inequitable rationalization which serves only evil.


So you 'feel' that those mentioned aren't fairly classified as leftists?

ROFLMNAO... SWEET RATIONALIZATION! Hey if my ideology had slaughtered half of the preset population of the US and I weren't bright enough to recognize that, I'd probably buck the definition too...

Of course they were leftists and since the left is the most intolerant ideology in human history, having resulted in two world wars and setting aside the nuber of people that lost their lives in those catastrophes, murdered ANOTHER 150 MILLION people, it's pretty clearly established that LEFTIST ARE NOT TOLERANT OF OTHERS... the assertion is itself is absurd on its face.

Yes I see how tolerant of others you are... you've dogged my differing opinions for going on three weeks... You're leftist sport, rest assured of it. The best sign of it is your need to revise the meaning of words to fit your 'feelings.'

I define 'conservative' as: One that seeks to conserve.

Well, no; I define leftists as anything which seeks to establish the needs of the collective over the valid rights of the individual; for example the communist, socialist and fascist set in example above.

Friends... many years ago I had a HS teacher who told us that in out lifetime the ideological left would begin to revise history to reflect that, as they had done with the Nazis and the National Socialist Fascists, that the communists were not leftists either... We laughed and laughed... and here, once again, we find just that... a person who considers themselves perfectly reasonable; a person who if you stood beside or behind them, perhaps at the grocery or the bank, would appear as normal as rain... comes to in a round about way, declare the Moaist Chinese, the Soviets, te communist khmer rouge, and every other Marxist catastrophe as something other than leftist. Repeating the absurd propaganda that the leftist ideology is all about tolerance and forgiveness... even as they establish speech laws and hate laws and try to re-establish regulations which will prevent free unfettered speech on the radio and force people to listen to their assinine drivel, while they scheme to strip you of government protections to own and use firearms by which you are able to defend yourself... and all in the name of 'fairness...'

These people aren't with us friends... they're a parasitic virus which can and will only lead to cultural decay and our inevitable national demise. They are the enemy and need to be treated as such.