Ah, there it is, the statement I was waiting for. God'd law because they serve justice perfecly, through their perfect reasoning. So in other words, it's not just because god said so and god is the final authority. It is becaue god is answering to reasoning. Go figure. This makes reason the final authority, not God.
Fine, whatever you say. In that case, I'm not a leftist and I'm not arguing for it.
There is a difference between dogging and silencing you or killing you for them. I would uphold your right to live and speak your differing opinions as much as my own. I also don't get caught up in scemantics. If you believe intolerance is the philosophy of a leftist, fine, then I'm not a leftist. I tolerate your opinions.

In the context with which we are speaking, what is this "one" seeking to conserve?
So you're saying your philosophy doesnt recognise the duty to look after anyone else other than yourself, that the individual "negative" rights are all that matter? Sounds like a pretty crappy moral philosophy to me.

"Do unto others as you would have others do unto you. [Matthew 7:120]. "

This quote implies a collective philosophy, not an individual philosophy... unless you are saying "do nothing" is what you would do and others should do. Pretty harsh.

Throwing eveyone into one bucket. I uphold your right to speak on the radio jsut as anyone else. I just hope nobody else will listen, but that is their right. In addition, adhering to some of the ideas of these crazy leftists doesnt make me exactly as them. Certainly there is crazy ideas from religious people, but I don't throw them all on your back either.
lol, there's intolerance if I've ever seen it. I thought your said it was the leftists that were intolerant?

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True knowledge exists in knowing what you don't know.

If god established only individual rights such that we are to look after ourselves, what then is the purpose of life? I hardly think this selfish philosophy is the philosophy of any god I would worship and makes no sense to me if god is “good”. It only makes sense to me that he would put us here to learn not only to protect ones own rights, but also those of his brothers.

Take the example given a while back. You are living your own marry life when you notice 10 men that are being held as slaves in a salt mine. Individual rights philosophy holds that this is not your problem, and you should just continue on your marry way. After all, this is not interfering with your individual rights. Is this what your god wants you to do? Or are you to do what you can to help others who’s individual rights are at stake? This would be an acknowledgment of positive rights where you have a responsibility to look after others, and not just yourself. In other words, the foundation of collective rights. If you believe you should just go on your marry way, are you really living by the golden rule?

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True knowledge exists in knowing what you don't know.

Yes it does assume there is no power greater than God... I think I made that quite clear, yet you feel compelled to repeat it as if there was some lingering doubt in my position... Power inevitably gets down to control sport... It's synonymous... The thing about God, like the US, which in my view is why the US has been so blessed, is that he provides basic rules, expects you to follow them and once you've played through holds you accountable for you own behavior, chosen by you, executed by you, whereupon he rewards of punishes, based upon YOUR own decisions and actions.

God, as I stated not nine or so times, is the final authority, my rights rest on that authority, why should I concern myself with lessor authority?

Yes I expect God is rather biased... Such seems perfectly reasonable.

[/quote]

Oh my, a rather pathetic appeal to authority... Ya know Jeff, I was just thinking, IF I were the purest essence of evil and I were trying to sway others to my evil ways... I'd do it precisely as you're doing it here...

Its quite stunning, really. Tell me, do you see yourself as being truly evil or has this thoroughly escaped you?

The point Jeff is that the only valid purpose of Government is to protect the God given rights of the collective sport... not to strip him of those rights as is the case where leftist find power. For instance Jeff, you may have heard that some people now have the right to the product of the labor of others; this established by federal decree... When Jeff in reality, there is no principle wherein anyone has the right to the product of another, except where the other has expressly and specifically given their consent.

Tell me Jeff, do you know of a principle where upon one individual has the right to the product of another man's labor without his specifically expressed consent?

Well... of course you do not... yet you will likely advocate for the Universal Healthfare so common among the dimmer bulbs.

Ahh, so you're rejecting God because he's an infringement on your liberty, but you're perfectly fine with a pack of human imbeciles having control over you...? ROFLMNAO... Jeff that was a given when you initially implied your atheism... It's who you people ARE! That's the whole foundation of your absurd ideology. When in fact, where God is concerned, you've absolutely no choice... God has GIVEN YOU LIFE... He's GIVEN YOU FREE WILL... You're free to do with that life whatever you will. And upon that great gettin' up morning you'll be held accountable and based upon the info I'm working on... you'll spend forever being tormented in agony.

Now I expect that somewhere along the line in forever... I expect you'll figure it out... my guess is the instant you stand up for judgment.

Now as to whether God represents a limit to my liberty, yeah... I expect he does and one I joyfully accept. He is my creator and considering that without him I wouldn't even be hear, I figure I owe him nothing less. It's a great deal as far as I'm concerned. It's people having power over me I reject.



Says who? YOU? (LOL... Don't ya love the other edge?)

Jeff no one gives a darn what you say... no one is going to run to the sound of your voice... "FOLLOW ME FRIENDS! IN MY OPINION THERE'S A SOCIAL CONTRACT AND IF YOU RISK THE ONLY LIFE YOU HAVE, WE CAN DESTROY THIS GOVERMENT WHICH FAILED BECAUSE OF POLICIES INHERENT TO THE SAME SOCIAL CONTRACT (WHICH I SUPPORTED BY THE WAY) AND WE CAN BUILD ANOTHER GOVERNMENT! BUT A BETTER THIS TIME! WE'LL DOUBLE TAXES AND THAT WAY WE WON'T RUN OUT OF MONEY TO SUBSIDIZE YOUR LAZY, GOVERNMENT TIT SUCKLING, ADLE-MINDED @$$&$!

Bad News sport... There is no such thing as a social contract... that is a farce of the lowest order; it is nonsense snatched directly from the leftist ether. You have one right, the right to life and that's it.

Says history sport... Now if you'd care to cite any force on earth which has been responsible for freeing more people than the United States, a nation founded directly upon Judea/Christian values... then site it. I've been asking for one for 30 years and if you site a valid example of such, you'll be the first and there's been some pretty sharp Godless heathens try... But hey, I say give it a go... you never know, you might pull it off.

As to my having convinced anyone... please understand... I'm not trying to convince you or anyone else here of anything, Jeff. I'm here to test my positions against those of my opposition... I'm here to belittle you, to berate you; I want to give you the opportunity; allowing you, if you will, to expose yourself as an atheist fool. As far as I'm concerned sport, if you were bright enough to understand, YOU WOULD!



They always do when one is arguing with atheists... You demand God doesn't exist, I ask you to site the evidence of this, you fail to do so, declaring that because you lack the means to recognize the evidence this, unto itself is conclusive proof... it's a long and very tiring exchange.


Wrong again... sport. In the absence of God the State in fact IS the final authority. As the state holds all the power and power is that on which authority rests...

Your secular appeal is baseless crap... it's a rationalization which wants to have its cake and eat it too. Jeff's rights based on Jeff's imagination are crap, they're meaningless, because Jeff will change his mind the instant the rights become a liability. It's the nature of leftist Jeff... That's why you people have disarmed Australia and most of Europe... you don't want to the responsibility... so you push it onto the state, lacking sufficient intelligence to realize that rights cannot exist in the absence of responsibility... The greater the responsibility the greater the right. Can't have one without the other... and before ya ask... YES! Because I said so...


There's no such thing as a social contract Jeff... it’s make believe, a myth created by the left, so as to sway the dullards into surrendering their right, conceding to government control. But there must by a veil of ignorance, as you're wrapped in it... COMPLETELY!


Oh none taken... I don't lend credence to anything a leftist says, particularly an atheist... but it is a smashing appeal to popularity... But hey... I know how you crusaders of the minority need to think of yourselves as being a part of a huge majority... and it is HYSTERICAL (in at least two contexts and on several levels)


Well Jeff, I say so and I say so based upon God having said so and many sound thinkers of history having said so down through the ages...

But as to your opinion of who, given the two of us, knows God better, I'd say you've proven that you don't know God at all and that the reason is you've overtly rejected him... you've proven that at least a half dozen times in this exchange ALONE! But God's given you the right to make that decision and he's made it clear that all actions have consequences and the consequences for your actions are HEAVY! And if you're good with that; while I hate to see someone disrespect the Father, there's not much I can do about it, until such time that such becoems a discernable threat to me or someone in my immediate presence... so I'll just encourage you to keep posting, given that no one proves what an atheist is all about better than an atheist.

Where'd you get the idea that such was the case?

You sure as hell didn't get it from me... I've epeatedly explained to you that your rights comes with sacred responsibilities; responsibilities to see that you do not infringe upon the rights of others... responibilities to overtly defen the rights of others and that absent these responsibilities, there can be no right.




This is delusion of the farcicle variety... Again you intentionally advance this absurd inference out of desperation... It is your DUTY in maintaining your own rights to defend the rights of another. Where one sees injustice, one is OBLIGATED to defend those who are realizing the injustice... as they are to defend your rights. This is the perfect reasoning of divine rights... Its why it works...


It is the atheist left that turns its back on injustice, except where such can be used to some political gain. The 150 MILLION people that were murdered by the ideological left, were murdered in perfectly legal processes, in full view of the atheist left which turned its back to the injustice and now seeks to dispicably revise history in order to escape responsibility for having done so...

They are a loathsome, disreputable people.

"Delusion of the farcical variety"? You mean like the entire premise of this thread? What if I wake up and everyone is trying to kill atheists? Is that the type of farcical delusion you speak of?

And as I said very early in the thread! What I would do is summon an army of zombie vampires to fight on the side of atheists!!!!!

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R.I.P. Molly, I miss you every day!!



Im a Tarte, what! you want some of this?

I think it isa good book to study that pertains to the thoughts of the founding fathers.

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And he said unto them, Ye will surely say unto me this proverb, Physician, heal thyself: whatsoever we have heard done in Capernaum, do also here in thy country.

And he said, Verily I say unto you, No prophet is accepted in his own country.

I like how you completely dodged the point and proceeded to call me evil. You dont know god, and neither do I. As such, you are just as likely to be preaching on behalf of "evil" as I, since evil, to you, is whatever god says is evil.
Certain rights must be stripped for government to have any power at all. If the government views the econimic system itself as bias and unfair to a certain class, they have every right to enforce a more fair system, correcting the deficiancies of the economic system. You assume our economic system is the beacon of fairness with regard to the compensation of labor, and that is where you are wrong.
[/quote]
Where the product of labor was dispoportionatly/unfairly awarded, where one class of people had an unfair advantage by the nature of the economic system.
you're good at jumping to conclusions.
At least so you think, for no particular reason than a self serving, baseless bias for your opinions on the nature of god over mine.
Somehow I think it will be you who has no concern for others, only your own individual rights and ability to live your life as you choose, who will have more to be afraid of than I. What exactly is god judging us on? Our ability to look after our own selves? Even a dog knows how to do that. The question is if you can look after others.
So if god created you just so he could tourcher you, you would say, well, that's okay because god is the final authority on morality. It must be okay. You are only following god because you beleive it serves you to do so.
There's as much merit to social contract theory as there is to your personal inturpretation of god's will, god's rights, god's and god's nature. So who are you expecting to run under you? Obviously the blind unable to think for themselves, instead needing to appeal to a god they know nothing about and attribute their rights to him.

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True knowledge exists in knowing what you don't know.

Ive never rejected him, you've only assumed that. I'm agnostic. Regardless of my rejecting or accepting him, neither means you know him better than I because you know not what you have accepted. You are just as ignorant of the nature of god as I. If there is a god, I believe he's more interested in rewarding those who show themselves as capable of free, rational thinking, and not blind devotion to something they know nothing about. That is unless god is only interested in mindless worshipers, in which case I have no interest in this god. For this reason, I'm entertained with the thought that god put the bible on the earth just to see who will blindly follow it, and then cast those people asside as bad apples.

So it comes down to this. You, in your blind delusions, somehow think you know what makes god tick, and because this god is the final authority, that's that. There is nothing that will change your mind.

To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.
Thomas Paine

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True knowledge exists in knowing what you don't know.

So you do accept community responsabilities. That's good, you're almost there.

You are trying to get me upset. But there's no need to me to trouble myself with the self rightious rants of someone obviously devoid of any form of rationality. Go on, carry on iwith your delusions, I'm sure god will have a nice short bus to pick you up and take you where you're going when you pass on from this life.

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True knowledge exists in knowing what you don't know.