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  #1191 (permalink)  
Old 05-29-2008, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by catzmeow View Post
I totally agree that SHE should decide what to wear. However, would she be allowed to do so in MOST Islamic countries?
Actually yes, Qatar, Kuwait, UAE, Turkey, Lebanon, Syria, Bahrain,. she can go like that at least in that countries. Iran and saudi arabia have strict laws on hijab.
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  #1192 (permalink)  
Old 05-29-2008, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by catzmeow View Post
What's interesting, Perham, is that I've never once heard you speak out in favor of sharia laws, chastity tests for women, or dress codes for women.
I believe in sharia. also I believe that we should not force it on anyone. this is how we can keep our faith from being insulted all over the world. by not forcing it to others. toleration, is something that we should learn.


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And, it's almost undeniable that with Sharia law would come chastity tests and dress codes for women.
it's arguable. many muslim experts say that it's not like that, and a country can run under an islamic rule and yet give people the freedom of choice.

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It's just an interesting contradiction on his part. Sometimes, actions speak louder than words.
he's living in a culture totally different with what we have over here. I suggest everybody here who want to know the reality of ME, to come over here. you will be amazed of the differences between what you see and what you thought. then you can understand the potentials of the place for being stable.

having easier laws on hijab not only gives people the freedom of choice, but also will reduce the amount of underground stuff and will make everything clear, meaning the problems are no longer hidden, but can be seen and solved. in every sense, it's a good action, so why shouldn't we do it? we're discussing such issues almost everyday, but yet, we should gain enough power to force our idea. thats a tough way ahead, but definitely not impossible.
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Old 05-29-2008, 07:45 PM
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Whether she covers or not. That is between her and God.
that's what I say. totally agreed.
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Old 05-29-2008, 07:55 PM
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Thanks, Perham, I appreciate hearing your views and experiences. You are a joy to dialog with on here. Do you think these things will eventually change in Iran?

As a woman, hearing about executions of women for unchastity, it's horrifying to me, really. It's like something out of the dark ages, for us. The offenses seem so minor. Being in a car with a boy, or being at a party with boys...

It's so hard to understand how such things can happen in a modern world.

In many ways, I am very conservative, and yet...I would not want those standards imposed on my life. I like having the freedom to choose who I will be with, on my terms, without having to answer to anyone.

Reading about these issues reminds me of a fictional book that I've read several times, "The Handmaid's Tale."
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Old 05-29-2008, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by catzmeow View Post
Thanks, Perham, I appreciate hearing your views and experiences. You are a joy to dialog with on here. Do you think these things will eventually change in Iran?

As a woman, hearing about executions of women for unchastity, it's horrifying to me, really. It's like something out of the dark ages, for us. The offenses seem so minor. Being in a car with a boy, or being at a party with boys...

It's so hard to understand how such things can happen in a modern world.

In many ways, I am very conservative, and yet...I would not want those standards imposed on my life. I like having the freedom to choose who I will be with, on my terms, without having to answer to anyone.

Reading about these issues reminds me of a fictional book that I've read several times, "The Handmaid's Tale."
Well, that is the issue.

They haven't really come into the modern world so to speak. Or at least, our depiction of a modern, civilized world (which I happen to like greatly).
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Old 05-29-2008, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by catzmeow View Post
Do you think these things will eventually change in Iran?
everything changes. just needs time. I am the change, can't you see?


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As a woman, hearing about executions of women for unchastity, it's horrifying to me, really. It's like something out of the dark ages, for us. The offenses seem so minor. Being in a car with a boy, or being at a party with boys...
come on, life not that hard over here. I have a girlfriend, and we go out sometimes, to parties, camping with other friends, there were many times that we were alone in a car and police got us for some reason (breaking the speed limit is my habit) and nothing happened. polices are people, not ancient animals. we talk, we negotiate, we live. everybody here wants more freedom. and I believe in getting my right.

Quote:
It's so hard to understand how such things can happen in a modern world.
as bigred said, in many aspects, this is traditional world. however, my generation thinks modern.

Quote:
In many ways, I am very conservative, and yet...I would not want those standards imposed on my life. I like having the freedom to choose who I will be with, on my terms, without having to answer to anyone.
me too, that's all I'm trying to achieve. that's all we all are trying to achieve, freedom. our revolution is going through its natural progress. I see future bright.

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Reading about these issues reminds me of a fictional book that I've read several times, "The Handmaid's Tale."
added to my book wishlist!
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Old 05-29-2008, 08:18 PM
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If you put your wishlist on Amazon, perhaps you will get a present at some point.

I hope you get all you dream of having.
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Old 05-29-2008, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by bugalugs View Post
Yes - you are absolutely right. Islam is the root of all terrorism.

A lot of people don't realise that the IRA in Britain were all muslims. Same with the Basque ETA. Shining Path in Peru - all muslims. So are the Tamil Tigers. Italian Red Brigades - all muslims. The Nicaraguan Contra Death Squads were all muslims too. And Ronald Reagan who armed them - he was a muslim as well. The Lord's Resistance Army in Uganda - pretend to be Christian, but we all know they are actually muslims as well. Then of course there are all those muslims that bomb abortion clinics in the USA.

Great you see you take a balanced and sensible view of this PatriotNews. This is not a subject that needs grossly inaccurate generalisations.
The IRA were Catholic. They were not Muslims.
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Old 05-30-2008, 07:14 AM
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Psst! Klatsassin, I think he was being sarcastic.

I'm not sure I see much point in arguing over what Islam is, rather than what it's being used for. Of course it's a religion of peace, if you use it for peaceful purposes. But like every other religion, it can be (and is, in many cases) used to fuel violence and xenophobia. The problem however is not Islam itself; it's those who pervert its principles to serve their own means.
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Old 05-30-2008, 07:19 AM
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The problem is...
Quote:

But like every other religion, it can be (and is, in many cases) used to fuel violence and xenophobia. The problem however is not Islam itself; it's those who pervert its principles to serve their own means.
Christianity, Judaism, and Islam all have a history of misogyny and persecution of people who are not the same. These religions are intolerant of differences, in their fundamentalist versions, because all the truth that the world needs is contained within their books. And, if you don't accept that truth, you are an enemy, a persecutor, a heretic, an infidel. That doesn't help.

The books themselves can be extremely misogynist, anti-gay/lesbian, and genophobic.

Beyond that, both the Islamic books, and the Christian books (in sections) are anti-semitic.

When the books ARE the principles, and the principles themselves contain support for misogyny, hatred of jews, etc., then we really do have to question how peaceful some of these religions really are. These religions all have a history of being inspired by their principles to kill large groups of "those who don't convert." The old testament, which is the history of the Jews, contains numerous stories of the Jewish people decimating their enemies. The history of Islam and Christianity are much the same.

Certainly, in their fundamentalist forms, where EVERY WORD is believed to be true and inspired, all of these religions can be quite nasty.
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Last edited by catzmeow; 05-30-2008 at 07:21 AM.
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