New Crusades - Should Islam Be Destroyed? - Page 123

catzmeow · #**1221** (**permalink**) 05-30-2008, 06:19 AM

The problem is...

Quote:

But like every other religion, it can be (and is, in many cases) used to fuel violence and xenophobia. The problem however is not Islam itself; it's those who pervert its principles to serve their own means.

Christianity, Judaism, and Islam all have a history of misogyny and persecution of people who are not the same. These religions are intolerant of differences, in their fundamentalist versions, because all the truth that the world needs is contained within their books. And, if you don't accept that truth, you are an enemy, a persecutor, a heretic, an infidel. That doesn't help.

The books themselves can be extremely misogynist, anti-gay/lesbian, and genophobic.

Beyond that, both the Islamic books, and the Christian books (in sections) are anti-semitic.

When the books ARE the principles, and the principles themselves contain support for misogyny, hatred of jews, etc., then we really do have to question how peaceful some of these religions really are. These religions all have a history of being inspired by their principles to kill large groups of "those who don't convert." The old testament, which is the history of the Jews, contains numerous stories of the Jewish people decimating their enemies. The history of Islam and Christianity are much the same.

Certainly, in their fundamentalist forms, where EVERY WORD is believed to be true and inspired, all of these religions can be quite nasty.

El_Cid · #**1222** (**permalink**) 05-30-2008, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catzmeow

The problem is...

Christianity, Judaism, and Islam all have a history of misogyny and persecution of people who are not the same. These religions are intolerant of differences, in their fundamentalist versions, because all the truth that the world needs is contained within their books. And, if you don't accept that truth, you are an enemy, a persecutor, a heretic, an infidel. That doesn't help.

The books themselves can be extremely misogynist, anti-gay/lesbian, and genophobic.

Beyond that, both the Islamic books, and the Christian books (in sections) are anti-semitic.

When the books ARE the principles, and the principles themselves contain support for misogyny, hatred of jews, etc., then we really do have to question how peaceful some of these religions really are. These religions all have a history of being inspired by their principles to kill large groups of "those who don't convert." The old testament, which is the history of the Jews, contains numerous stories of the Jewish people decimating their enemies. The history of Islam and Christianity are much the same.

Certainly, in their fundamentalist forms, where EVERY WORD is believed to be true and inspired, all of these religions can be quite nasty.

All absolutely correct, Catsmeow, and yet Christianity has given rise to the most free societies the world has ever known, while most countries with anything more than a 20 percent Muslim population are appallingly unfree. If the religions are so very similar, then there must be other factors at play.

catzmeow · #**1223** (**permalink**) 05-30-2008, 06:51 AM

Quote:

yet Christianity has given rise to the most free societies the world has ever known, while most countries with anything more than a 20 percent Muslim population are appallingly unfree. If the religions are so very similar, then there must be other factors at play

I wouldn't say that it was Christianity that gave rise to these free societies. After all, it was Christianity that was at least partially responsible for the dark ages of tribalism, death, and disorder in Europe. The enlightenment, which gave rise to the freedom you express, wasn't based in Christian roots, but in those of ancient Greek and Rome.

Curious, eh?

When the Christians (puritans) settled in America to escape religious persecution, the first thing they did was establish a religious government that then turned around and persecuted people religiously for "moral failings" (aka sins) and such things as Witchcraft. Remember Salem?

Perhaps it is NOT that religions give rise to society, but the practice of religion is a reflection of the society's education levels, opportunities for free thought, and religious plurality. When christian fundamentalists number more than 20% of a society, it seems we run into the same issues.

El_Cid · #**1224** (**permalink**) 05-30-2008, 07:01 AM

So perhaps America became what she is despite her Christian roots? Hmm, good point! The biggest difference between Western civilization and, um, the other guys... may very well be the concept of the separation of church and state. I guess it shouldn't be that big a surprise that secular, worldly principles do a better job of manging real world issues.

wind · #**1225** (**permalink**) 05-30-2008, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El_Cid

Psst! Klatsassin, I think he was being sarcastic.

I'm not sure I see much point in arguing over what Islam is, rather than what it's being used for. Of course it's a religion of peace, if you use it for peaceful purposes. But like every other religion, it can be (and is, in many cases) used to fuel violence and xenophobia. The problem however is not Islam itself; it's those who pervert its principles to serve their own means.

Thank you for stating your point about Islam so eloquently. We are not supposed to be 'cheerleaders', but when someone comes along and tates my position better than I could have said it, I take notice.

There is a whole contingent of people who believe quite the opposite. They feel the entire religion of Islam is violent and flawed and anyone who follows Islam is evil.

Some even consider that if you are NOT anti-islamic you are 'in cahoots' with jihadists. It'a an extreme position, and when someone is gripped by it, it is nearly iimpossible to dissuade them of the error in their thinking.

catzmeow · #**1226** (**permalink**) 05-30-2008, 02:43 PM

Quote:

They feel the entire religion of Islam is violent and flawed and anyone who follows Islam is evil.

And yet, the Holy Writings of Islam contain plenty of support for violence, anti-semitism, the oppression of women, the murder of gays/lesbians, and the abuse of children.

(Of course, the Bible has it's own issues).

wind · #**1227** (**permalink**) 05-30-2008, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catzmeow

And yet, the Holy Writings of Islam contain plenty of support for violence, anti-semitism, the oppression of women, the murder of gays/lesbians, and the abuse of children.

(Of course, the Bible has it's own issues).

The Bible has all those things--thanks for mentioning that.

catzmeow · #**1228** (**permalink**) 05-30-2008, 04:35 PM

Oh, trust me, I grew up as a fundamentalist Christian. I'm well-versed in the issues with Christianity. All of the three religions "of the book" have their issues. The books themselves reflect barbaric cultures.

Hence the fact that I am not religious.

wind · #**1229** (**permalink**) 05-30-2008, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catzmeow

Oh, trust me, I grew up as a fundamentalist Christian. I'm well-versed in the issues with Christianity. All of the three religions "of the book" have their issues. The books themselves reflect barbaric cultures.

Hence the fact that I am not religious.

Ah. I see.

Ivan · #**1230** (**permalink**) 05-30-2008, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perham

got it. continue thinking. inform us about the conclusions.

Yeah just disregard those posts. I was...tired?

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