New Crusades - Should Islam Be Destroyed? - Page 16

raytri · #**151** (**permalink**) 04-01-2008, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GovernmentCheese

Raytri that is from the Old Testament. I think God telling Israel how they must deal with the land of Canaan?

Nope. From the Abigensian Crusades in the 13th Century.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albigensian_Crusade

Spoken by a Catholic bishop after an incredibly bloody siege and capture of a heretic town (Beziers), who couldn't figure out which prisoners were heretics and which were good Catholics.

PatriotNews · #**152** (**permalink**) 04-01-2008, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raytri

Let's see. Which faith did the following quote issue from: "Slay them all. God will know his own"?

Christianity has a murderous history. To its credit, it has largely overcome that. But it's not hard to understand why nonChristians (and reflective Christians) don't see a great deal of difference in the current behavior of Islamic extremists and the past behavior of the Christian establishment.

The Army of God and the Westboro Baptist Church do not represent all Christians, any more than the Jihadists represent all Muslims. Do not impose a double standard on Islam.

Now I know where the phrase, "Kill them all, let God sort them out", came from...thanks...not from the Bible though.

Once again, however, I fail to see the moral equivalance between Christianity and Islam, or even the Bible and the Koran. I cannot for the life of me understand why people in free countries would try to draw such a comparison of current modern day maniacal massacres with the sins of misguided Christians of the past.

GovernmentCheese · #**153** (**permalink**) 04-01-2008, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raytri

So are Christians. You sure you want to use that argument?

Check out the last paragraph especially here raytri:

Quote:

...The Jihadis (Al—Queda and its international offshoots and collaborators) exist for religious conflict. Salafism, the cult form of Islam practiced by the Islamists, is as much an ideology of aggression as Nazism and Communism. It was designed as such: its two major figures, Maulana Mahdoudi and Said Qutb, effectively reconstructed Islam by throwing out every element not related to Jihad, the concept of holy war, and rechanneling the remainder to express pure hostility against anyone not a follower of their interpretation of the Koran.

This means not only Christians, not only seculars, not only Westerners, but any unenlightened Muslim. Shi'ites, Obadis, Sufis, even most brands of Sunni are enemies and potential victims. Salafism effectively transforms the entire earth into Dar al—Harb, the 'House of the Sword' in which unlimited warfare is permitted. Christianity is overtly a religion of mercy — a faith whose God deliberately sacrificed Himself out of pity for human suffering can be viewed in no other way.

Christians needed to compartmentalize the basic teachings of their faith in order to embark on religious warfare. Muslims do not, a fact that Salafism takes possession of and amplifies until it drowns out all other messages emerging from the Koran. Salafism is the preeminent ideology of religious warfare, in which all the elements of belief have become inseparable from malice, from murder, from genocide...

http://www.americanthinker.com/2006/...wn_on_rel.html

raytri · #**154** (**permalink**) 04-01-2008, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatriotNews

Once again, however, I fail to see the moral equivalance between Christianity and Islam, or even the Bible and the Koran. I cannot for the life of me understand why people in free countries would try to draw such a comparison of current modern day maniacal massacres with the sins of misguided Christians of the past.

When one sees the same behavior from the followers of both religions, one cannot help thinking that the problem is excessive religious fervor, not the specific brand of religion.

And the fact that Christianity has largely overcome its violent past suggests that Islam can, too.

Thus the problem is not Islam; it is the militant Muslims who use Islam as an excuse to kill, much like Christians used Christianity as an excuse to kill as recently as a couple of centuries ago.

CRIMSON MASK · #**155** (**permalink**) 04-01-2008, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatriotNews

Now I know where the phrase, "Kill them all, let God sort them out", came from...thanks...not from the Bible though.

Once again, however, I fail to see the moral equivalance between Christianity and Islam, or even the Bible and the Koran. I cannot for the life of me understand why people in free countries would try to draw such a comparison of current modern day maniacal massacres with the sins of misguided Christians of the past.

LOL! I agree. This lame comparisons of muslims of 2008 with what christians did 500-1000 years ago is quite a stretch! using that logic you can justify almost anything. The US held slaves and hung suspected witches in the sixteenth century so how can we condemn muslims beheading innocent journalists and strapping bombs to 10 year olds bodies? Yeah right.

raytri · #**156** (**permalink**) 04-01-2008, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GovernmentCheese

Check out the last paragraph especially here raytri:

I agree that Salafism is a highly violent offshoot of Islam. I even blogged about it some time back:
http://midtopia.blogspot.com/2006/04...-slamdunk.html

That does not mean the Salafi interpretations are valid, or mainstream in the slightest. It is a *tiny* sect, rejected by most Muslims.

GovernmentCheese · #**157** (**permalink**) 04-01-2008, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raytri

And the fact that Christianity has largely overcome its violent past suggests that Islam can, too.

The problem raytri, is that when people make the comparison between the two religions, most don't know that they are using misconceptions about Christianity.

CRIMSON MASK · #**158** (**permalink**) 04-01-2008, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raytri

When one sees the same behavior from the followers of both religions, one cannot help thinking that the problem is excessive religious fervor, not the specific brand of religion.

And the fact that Christianity has largely overcome its violent past suggests that Islam can, too.

Thus the problem is not Islam; it is the militant Muslims who use Islam as an excuse to kill, much like Christians used Christianity as an excuse to kill as recently as a couple of centuries ago.

So we should give muslims several hundred years to "get over it"?

raytri · #**159** (**permalink**) 04-01-2008, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRIMSON MASK

LOL! I agree. This lame comparisons of muslims of 2008 with what christians did 500-1000 years ago is quite a stretch! using that logic you can justify almost anything.

Your mistake is thinking that I'm trying to "justify" anything or excuse beheadings. All I'm doing is pushing back against the idea that Islam itself is the main, unfixable problem.

The militants are a problem that must be dealt with. But trying to blame Islam as a whole is wrong, strategically stupid, and ignores our own history.

raytri · #**160** (**permalink**) 04-01-2008, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRIMSON MASK

So we should give muslims several hundred years to "get over it"?

It took Christianity that long; it might take Islam that long. Unless you think Muslims are inherently smarter or better than Christians.

I hope it won't; there's already a large base of moderate Muslims, built on mainstream Muslim thought, and there are the lessons of history. So one can hope it will go faster this time around.

But it might take centuries. Our unfortunate role in that case is to defend ourselves, contain the damage and do what we can to speed the process.

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