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  #331 (permalink)  
Old 04-04-2008, 01:34 PM
eleanoraquitaine eleanoraquitaine is offline
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So much for the 1% LIE:

http://www.gulf-times.com/site/topic...6&parent_id=16

Arabs find issue of religious extremism exaggerated: poll
Published: Monday, 31 March, 2008, 01:15 AM Doha Time

A YOUGOV poll commissioned by the Doha Debates has concluded that nearly one-third of all Arabs believe that Saudi Arabia is at greater risk from religious extremism than any other country in the world.

The poll adds weight to the vote at a session of the Doha Debates held on March 3 in Doha, where the motion “This house believes that Muslims are failing to combat extremism”, was carried by more than 70% of the audience. In the YouGov survey, nearly half of all Arabs in the Gulf, Levant and North Africa said they have met someone who holds extreme religious views. Asked under what conditions violence is permissible, more than 60% cited Western interference in a Muslim country, while 55% said offensive words or behaviour was a trigger.

More than half the respondents also believed that poor religious leadership is to blame for today’s extremism – although seven out of 10 said the size of the problem had been exaggerated. Eight out of 10 believed it provides an excuse for the West to interfere in Muslim countries. In the poll, conducted between March 18 and 23, views of 940 people across the Arab world were surveyed.
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Qur'an:8:39 Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.
Qur'an:8:67 It is not fitting for any prophet to have prisoners until he has made a great slaughter in the land.
Qur'an 8:12 I will terrorize the unbelievers...Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.
Qur'an 9:5 Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, torture them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.

Last edited by eleanoraquitaine; 04-04-2008 at 01:34 PM.
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  #332 (permalink)  
Old 04-04-2008, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masterproctor View Post
Well I don't think killing to stop killing is a means of solving a problem. As much as it may pain people to hear, we should actually listen to some of the complaints of communities in which terrorist groups are allowed to reside in and address these issues if they aren't too incredibly radical or irrational.

Merely ending the faith of Islam isn't going to solve the problems of the middle east. Violence would most likely continue even if Islam didn't exist and was replaced by some other means of belief. The problems that plague that region go much deeper than the mere spiritual beliefs of individuals. Instead most people face real problems: oppression, lack of food and water, violence and other forms of human rights abuses and they seek a remedy by using religion in cases that seem so hopeless that they believe only a violent redress of the situation can offer an escape. And that goes for almost any situation where you have extreme forms of poverty and oppression, just not the middle east.
A lot of the problems that plague that region are caused by Islamic/Sharia laws. By saying that we should listen to some of the complaints of the terrorists, aren't you saying that their killing of innocents might actually be justified?

Quote:
Originally Posted by masterproctor View Post
Before, I had just lightly skimmed through this entire thread. Now after reading it pretty thoroughly I have to say I am shocked. The amount of intolerant hate is astounding not to mention facts and statistics that cannot be verified by any source.

What I mean to say is, I will not continue this discussion further, because I thought it was more scholarly than I had initially interpreted. Instead most of it is based on discriminatory racist appeals against muslims and other conspiracy theories.

I must say as a student of world religions, I am shocked at how ignorant and naive some attacks against Islam are, and how they have little or no basis in reality whatsoever.
I am shocked that you are shocked. How can someone be racist against a religion? Islam is not a race, people who follow Islam are of many races, so how can this be racist?

Are you not shocked at the intolerant hate that is spewed worldwide by muslims? Look at the deaths, the bombings, 9-11, Madrid, London, Israel, and Iraq. Who is murdering innocents? Followers of Islam. Who is cutting of heads of hostages and prisoners? Followers of Islam. Are you not shocked by this one bit? That doesn't bother you but this thread does...bit of a double standard?

My main point to this entire thread is that Islam is not a religion but a homicidal political cult disguised as a religion. I am not calling for the death of all muslims or mass killings, WW III or anything of the sort. As information spreads many people will learn about other religions and convert from Islam on their own. But I think people can be educated about it too and we need to actively pursue this and promote religious freedom and democracy around the world in order to promote it. Yes, we will have to fight extremists. No, I don't want to kill peaceful people.

We put an end to Nazism (which had its religious aspects too by the way), and we put an end to Communism for the most part (aetheism was the religion of choice for them). We can put an end to Islamism. If Islam can go through some sort of reformation, then fine. But everything I've ever seen out of it my entire life has been taking hostages, killing innocents. Remember the Munich Olympics? I do. Remember the Achilles Laurel? I do. And on and on...

By the way, it is not an valid argument to call someone a racist (ad hominid attack) without any proof, and the just say, “I’m done.” You never once addressed the issue in my original post.
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  #333 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2008, 09:38 AM
eleanoraquitaine eleanoraquitaine is offline
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Quote:
The poll adds weight to the vote at a session of the Doha Debates held on March 3 in Doha, where the motion “This house believes that Muslims are failing to combat extremism”, was carried by more than 70% of the audience. In the YouGov survey, nearly half of all Arabs in the Gulf, Levant and North Africa said they have met someone who holds extreme religious views. Asked under what conditions violence is permissible, more than 60% cited Western interference in a Muslim country, while 55% said offensive words or behaviour was a trigger.
Seems pretty telling that no muslim apologists want to touch this poll. Dam the facts, islam is peaceful!
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Qur'an:8:39 Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.
Qur'an:8:67 It is not fitting for any prophet to have prisoners until he has made a great slaughter in the land.
Qur'an 8:12 I will terrorize the unbelievers...Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.
Qur'an 9:5 Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, torture them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.

Last edited by eleanoraquitaine; 04-05-2008 at 09:39 AM.
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  #334 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2008, 11:05 AM
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This thread needs to die.
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  #335 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2008, 11:34 AM
eleanoraquitaine eleanoraquitaine is offline
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This thread needs to die.
I can certainly see why muslims, apologists, and appeasers would want this thread to die. It is obvious that the case that islam is a peaceful religion is very, very weak. This thread and discussions like it are not in the interest of the jihad.
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Qur'an:8:39 Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.
Qur'an:8:67 It is not fitting for any prophet to have prisoners until he has made a great slaughter in the land.
Qur'an 8:12 I will terrorize the unbelievers...Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.
Qur'an 9:5 Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, torture them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.

Last edited by eleanoraquitaine; 04-05-2008 at 11:34 AM.
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  #336 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2008, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eleanoraquitaine View Post
I can certainly see why muslims, apologists, and appeasers would want this thread to die. It is obvious that the case that islam is a peaceful religion is very, very weak. This thread and discussions like it are not in the interest of the jihad.
This thread needs to die because it's obviously Christian tyranny. Saying something as offensive as "Should Islam Be Destroyed?" is ridiculous. What would say and how would you feel is someone were to write "Should Christianity Be Destroyed?"

Hate begets hate. Do unto others as you would have others do to you.
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  #337 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2008, 06:41 PM
CRIMSON MASK CRIMSON MASK is offline
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Originally Posted by Raharu Haruha View Post
This thread needs to die because it's obviously Christian tyranny. Saying something as offensive as "Should Islam Be Destroyed?" is ridiculous. What would say and how would you feel is someone were to write "Should Christianity Be Destroyed?"

Hate begets hate. Do unto others as you would have others do to you.
You don't get it. That entire region is at war with us and have been for years dating back way before Bush took office. It is a real war with real violence and the people in that region are willing to commit the most unspeakable acts against innocent men, women, and children.

It's not christian tyranny. Only blind radical far left America haters could even imagine that.
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  #338 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2008, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raharu Haruha View Post
This thread needs to die because it's obviously Christian tyranny. Saying something as offensive as "Should Islam Be Destroyed?" is ridiculous. What would say and how would you feel is someone were to write "Should Christianity Be Destroyed?"

Hate begets hate. Do unto others as you would have others do to you.
This is the most popular thread in this forum right now. Why is that? This forum's purpose is to express opinions, inspire ideas and enable spirited debates. I believe I have done that by starting this thread.

You say that, "Saying something as offensive as 'Should Islam Be Destroyed?' is ridiculous." Why is it ridiculous?

I am Catholic. If you did start a thread that said, "Should Catholicism be Destroyed?", I doubt you would get much debate. Why? Because that would be bigoted.

What is the difference between Islam and Catholicism?

Islam makes no difference between its religion and its preferred form of governance as was mentioned in this recently started thread:

Quote:
Unlike other faiths, Islam is not just a religion but a political system as well. The state is intended to be inseparable from religious rule. Islamic law, or Sharia, is complete and not designed to coexist with or be subordinate to other legal systems.
Can Muslim citizens be loyal to a non-Muslim government?

Catholicism and Christianity make clear your duties to you country, and your dues to God.

Islam is currently committing acts of terrorism, murder, assassination, human rights abuses, war, and genocide and committing crimes against women and children all in the name of their "faith".

Catholicism has committed atrocious acts in the past, but the church has acknowledged and apologized for many of its sins of its past.

So why is it not bigotry for me to speak against Islamism? Because the main point of this thread and the main argument I am making is against a homicidal political cult not a religion. If anything, this point needs further discussion, because I have yet to see anyone give me one valid argument against that main point. Why, because I am right. Just look at the country of Saudi Arabia of today, and you will see that I am 100% correct.
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  #339 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2008, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by CRIMSON MASK View Post
You don't get it. That entire region is at war with us and have been for years dating back way before Bush took office. It is a real war with real violence and the people in that region are willing to commit the most unspeakable acts against innocent men, women, and children.

It's not christian tyranny. Only blind radical far left America haters could even imagine that.
"Us"? Us being who? We here on this forum? I doubt any of you have had contact with a real Muslim terrorist. I even doubt that most of you had a family member in 9/11. There are very few Americans that are actually affected by the 4 thousand dead American soldiers. I can't say whether or not any of you are one of them, but I am not. I am not a member of "us", and I wish it to stay that way. I do not want YOU making and forcing ME to become a member of "us". The day that you do, it takes away my liberty, you infringe on my freedom, and you infringe on their's as well. If they want to fight a war, they can knock their (*)(*)(*)(*)ing socks off, if you want to pick a side, I'm sure you can find a way to do so WITH OUT ASSOCIATING YOURSELF WITH AMERICA.

Set out to destroy any you like, so long as it's not America.
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Old 04-05-2008, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by PatriotNews View Post
You say that, "Saying something as offensive as 'Should Islam Be Destroyed?' is ridiculous." Why is it ridiculous?
Obviously if this was an actual forum where people were encouraged to express their real opinions, you would have considered mine a little more thoughtfully. I don't feel I should pay any respect to someone who so quickly writes off my opinion because it's not the same as the larger group.

Saying "should Islam be destroyed" is ridiculous because you cannot destroy an idea. Furthermore, you shouldn't try. People are entitled to ideas. People are entitled to beliefs. People are entitled to liberty, and I don't care if they don't have a constitution, if we really believe in our own we must assume that they are true for ALL people. It is also morally stupid. How does a person conform to hate a religion? A religion is supposed to be all that is good in the world, it is supposed to be all that is peaceful and right. It is supposed to teach us lessons about life, and go figure, Islam as waring as real life. I can't believe how many people feel that they can simply destroy things that are precious to other people, do you simply not think of the consequences? Do you expect them to simply submit? Do you even realize that Islam is more widely practiced than Christianity? Yes. That's right, there's more of them than there are of you. If the world were a democracy, you would lose the election. This (*)(*)(*)(*) is stupid and ridiculous.
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