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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 03-31-2008, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by eleanoraquitaine View Post
Countries in red have active Muslim Jihad activity as of 11/12/2004.
So you ignore my list of conflicts, and post a map that claims there is significant Islamic terror activity on three quarters of the planet?

No, that's not ideologically biased at all.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 03-31-2008, 12:37 PM
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So you ignore my list of conflicts, and post a map that claims there is significant Islamic terror activity on three quarters of the planet?
You/it offered no evidence for you assertion whatsoever that any of the conflicts you listed involved Christians fighting for their religion. I see some on your list CLEARLY do not involve Christians fighting for their religion, like Burma for instance, though some Christians might be victims of the Burmese government. Your list is absurd and the map I linked to had a reference link that discussed all the areas marked as active jihad conflicts.
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Qur'an:8:39 Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.
Qur'an:8:67 It is not fitting for any prophet to have prisoners until he has made a great slaughter in the land.
Qur'an 8:12 I will terrorize the unbelievers...Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.
Qur'an 9:5 Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, torture them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.

Last edited by eleanoraquitaine; 03-31-2008 at 12:39 PM.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 03-31-2008, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by eleanoraquitaine View Post
You/it offered no evidence for you assertion whatsoever that any of the conflicts you listed involved Christians fighting for their religion.
A fact I clearly noted, by way of examples of fighting involving Muslims that wasn't necessarily religious in nature.

The poster to whom I was responding made no such distinction; he just said Muslims are involved in most of the world's conflicts. I said the same could be said about Christians. That is the point I illustrated.

Quote:
I see some on your list CLEARLY do not involve Christians fighting for their religion, like Burma for instance, though some Christians might be victims of the Burmese government.
In Burma, some of the separatist groups involve largely Christian tribes. But I agree, their gripes are mostly ethnic, not religious.

If that's your criteria, though, then a lot of the conflicts I listed under "Muslim" fall off the list. Like Kashmir, Algeria and the Indonesian separatist fights. None of those are primarily religious conflicts in the sense you mean.

Quote:
Your list is absurd.
Your map is worse.

I clearly stated the criteria for my list. If you now want to modify the criteria and examine only conflicts where religion is a central reason for fighting, I'd be happy to. It will further destroy the original poster's point, though; because religion is the animating force in only a handful of conflicts, Muslim or Christian.
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Old 03-31-2008, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eleanoraquitaine View Post
You/it offered no evidence for you assertion whatsoever that any of the conflicts you listed involved Christians fighting for their religion. I see some on your list CLEARLY do not involve Christians fighting for their religion, like Burma for instance, though some Christians might be victims of the Burmese government. Your list is absurd and the map I linked to had a reference link that discussed all the areas marked as active jihad conflicts.
Who is going to fight this "Great War" with Islam?

hmmmm?

America suffers the greatest attack on her soil and less than 1% of the population steps up to serve.

Yeah, you know the other war~ Afghanistan.

Now you want a war with over 1 billion enemy combatants?

What? so long as someone else does the fighting?

While I agree that extremism is a Global problem, a genocidal solution on the scale of attacking each and every Muslim on this Planet smacks of Facism. Can't say I condone that reasoning, it is intolerance based solely upon religious beliefs and it's Un-Constitutional.

Last edited by Herkdriver; 03-31-2008 at 01:08 PM.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 03-31-2008, 01:13 PM
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I said muslims were causing most of the world's conflicts for religious reasons and I offered a referenced list with a map. If you want to debate any of the countries marked in red, bring it on. I can cite evidence for every one of the countries and cite evidence they involve muslims who proclaim they are fighting to make islam dominant.

You offer no proof of your insane assertions about Christianity whatsoever, so no, you did not demonstrate any point at all. I see the vast majority, if not all, of the conflicts on your list of "Christian conflicts" CLEARLY have NOTHING to do with Christianity aside from possibly having some Christian victims. Its simply absurd on its face. If true, I am sure there would be a worldwide movement of agnostics, atheists, Jews, Hindus, etc ready to wage war on Christiafascism, which simply does not exist in any numbers worth considering and simply is not a threat to anyone aside from a few isolated lunatics. But, consider the reverse, where the best case scenario offered by the appeasers and apologists is that 1% of muslims are violent, an absolutely huge number of violent muslims and an absurdly low estimate anyway.
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Qur'an:8:39 Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.
Qur'an:8:67 It is not fitting for any prophet to have prisoners until he has made a great slaughter in the land.
Qur'an 8:12 I will terrorize the unbelievers...Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.
Qur'an 9:5 Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, torture them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.

Last edited by eleanoraquitaine; 03-31-2008 at 01:15 PM.
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Old 03-31-2008, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eleanoraquitaine View Post
Countries in red have active Muslim Jihad activity as of 11/12/2004.
Ha ha ha ha! Australia!?! New Zealand!?!?!?! Ha ha ha ha!

I'll have to remember next time I wander out to crutch the sheep to keep an eye out for suicide bombers.

Thanks for the heads up!
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 03-31-2008, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herkdriver View Post
Who is going to fight this "Great War" with Islam?

hmmmm?

America suffers the greatest attack on her soil and less than 1% of the population steps up to serve.

Yeah, you know the other war~ Afghanistan.

Now you want a war with over 1 billion enemy combatants?

What? so long as someone else does the fighting?

While I agree that extremism is a Global problem, a genocidal solution on the scale of attacking each and every Muslim on this Planet smacks of Facism. Can't say I condone that reasoning, it is intolerance based solely upon religious beliefs and it's Un-Constitutional.
We are at war with islam not because we declared it, but because muslims have declared it.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 03-31-2008, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eleanoraquitaine View Post
I said muslims were causing most of the world's conflicts for religious reasons and I offered a referenced list with a map.
A map that didn't address your claim.

You said they "cause most of the world's conflicts for religious reasons".

Fair enough; I provided a list of the world's conflicts and analyzed them.

You provided a list of every country where there were four Islamic extremists pushing their agenda. Unless you want to show me the shooting war going on in the United States, Canada, Australia and all the other countries highlighted on your map that do not have ongoing conflicts on their soil.

Quote:
You offer no proof of your insane assertions about Christianity whatsoever, so no, you did not demonstrate any point at all. I see the vast majority, if not all, of the conflicts on your list of "Christian conflicts" CLEARLY have NOTHING to do with Christianity aside from possibly having some Christian victims.
Like I said, then define what you mean by "cause" and "conflict." I simply took the broadest meaning possible -- and even then only managed to tie Muslims to 21 of the world's 38 ongoing conflicts. Having done that, I applied the same methodology to Christians.

I'm happy to analyze the list by any criteria you name. But I need to know what that criteria is. What constitutes a "conflict"? Does "started for a religious reason" mean that religion must be the primary animating cause of the war? And how do you determine who started it? Is the minority that chooses to rebel at fault, or is the central government that had marginalized them for decades?

I'll agree that when it comes to starting wars for religious reasons, these days it's more likely to be a Muslim than not. But that's hardly the same thing as blaming Muslims for the world's conflicts. Most wars don't have religion as the main cause.

And I'm not attacking Christianity; simply noting the double-standard fallacy of the original poster's criticism of Islam.
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 03-31-2008, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by BillyBob View Post
We are at war with islam not because we declared it, but because muslims have declared it.
We've given over 4,000 American lives, thousands wounded...

over a Trillion dollars...

To help Islam.

Iraq & Afghanistan.

Jihadists do not represent all of Islam.
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Old 03-31-2008, 02:11 PM
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Ultimately, yes, it would be best if Islam disappeared. Along with all other religions.

For the moment, though, I think it is best to put our efforts into getting an Enlightenment in Islam, as it happened in Christianity. Islam is currently as Christianity was at the time of the Spanish Inquisition. Totally debased and corrupt. Let's work to bring Islam into the modern world.
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